Borg vs KE (again)

[Tyyr]

Ohh.. I'm with you on that mate. It seems like every dumbass who've seen First Contact think you can easily defeat the Borg just by arming your whole military with assault rifles

Everything I say and that's what you reply to?

[SolkaTruesilver]

Rest of the post

There, I haven't ignored it this time

It seems like every dumbass who've seen First Contact think you can easily defeat the Borg just by arming your whole military with assault rifles

Holy hopping snot, just wait until Seafort gets a hold of this one.

Hum.. is this a bad or a good thing?

It's just that since Borg have proven that they can create kinetic shields, and that they are notorious for adapting to anything you throw at them, stating that Picard machinegunned 2 of them simultaneously isn't proof that they won't adapt to kinetic weaponry relatively quickly, like they do to energy weaponry.

Is it THAT bad of a case I am making?

[Griffin]

Oh god, not this again.

[SolkaTruesilver]

Oh god, not this again.

All right! All right! I retreat! I won't mention this topic again!

Instead, can you link me to the relevant thread where this had been argued? I am curious to see what arguments have been thrown around for one side or the other.

[stitch626]

I'll give you the only possible argument.

It's just that since Borg have proven that they can create kinetic shields

Nope. Only a 29th century Borg created a kinetic shield. Every onther one was easy to defeat with melee weapons, fists (if the person was strong enough), or projectile weapons. Nowhere in the series (other than Drone) did the Borg demonstrate the ability for kinetic shields.

Rest of the post

There, I haven't ignored it this time

I might start using this for things I have no argument for. I have the same problem of ignoring things that I have no argument with.

[SolkaTruesilver]

I'll give you the only possible argument.

It's just that since Borg have proven that they can create kinetic shields

Nope. Only a 29th century Borg created a kinetic shield. Every onther one was easy to defeat with melee weapons, fists (if the person was strong enough), or projectile weapons. Nowhere in the series (other than Drone) did the Borg demonstrate the ability for kinetic shields.

Hum... Doesn't a drone make Worf bounce back when he's about to be tackled in the first time we meet them?

[stitch626]

Just watched the parts of Q-who that would load, and didn't see anything. If you could find it and link it, that would be good.

[Deepcrush]

I'll give you the only possible argument.

It's just that since Borg have proven that they can create kinetic shields

Nope. Only a 29th century Borg created a kinetic shield. Every onther one was easy to defeat with melee weapons, fists (if the person was strong enough), or projectile weapons. Nowhere in the series (other than Drone) did the Borg demonstrate the ability for kinetic shields.

Hum... Doesn't a drone make Worf bounce back when he's about to be tackled in the first time we meet them?

That was a force field on the Borg Cube emitted from the walls.

[Captain Seafort]

That was a force field on the Borg Cube emitted from the walls.

I think he's talking about the goldshirt that tried to grab the first drone to beam aboard the E-D in "Q Who?" - he was just shoved aside, with no shield involved at all.

Solka, as others have already pointed out, Borg drones are vulnerable to KE attacks, and would get the shit kicked out of them by any vaguely competent army with half-decent weapons. If you want to dispute this, start a new thread.

[Deepcrush]

I think he's talking about the goldshirt that tried to grab the first drone to beam aboard the E-D in "Q Who?" - he was just shoved aside, with no shield involved at all.

Ah, there's that to!

Solka, as others have already pointed out, Borg drones are vulnerable to KE attacks, and would get the s**t kicked out of them by any vaguely competent army with half-decent weapons. If you want to dispute this, start a new thread.

DON'T DO IT!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dddAi8FF3F4

[SolkaTruesilver]

Solka, as others have already pointed out, Borg drones are vulnerable to KE attacks, and would get the s**t kicked out of them by any vaguely competent army with half-decent weapons. If you want to dispute this, start a new thread.

DON'T DO IT!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dddAi8FF3F4

Nah, I won't. Since the argument is going to devolve into simply "What has been stated about the Borg" vs "What we have seen on screen", and that he will probably be impervious to any kind of argument that has stated that the Borg always adapt to any tactic used against it overtime, regardless that it has been stated as the Borg's main hat, on the basis that "We never seen on screen the Borg resist kinetic attack, so they can't resist".

Have I summarised the trap?

[Captain Seafort]

Nah, I won't. Since the argument is going to devolve into simply "What has been stated about the Borg" vs "What we have seen on screen", and that he will probably be impervious to any kind of argument that has stated that the Borg always adapt to any tactic used against it overtime, regardless that it has been stated as the Borg's main hat, on the basis that "We never seen on screen the Borg resist kinetic attack, so they can't resist".

Have I summarised the trap?

Not quite. The trap is that the position is indefensible. Trying to defend it with a no-limits fallacy simply makes it easier to rip apart.

[SolkaTruesilver]

Nah, I won't. Since the argument is going to devolve into simply "What has been stated about the Borg" vs "What we have seen on screen", and that he will probably be impervious to any kind of argument that has stated that the Borg always adapt to any tactic used against it overtime, regardless that it has been stated as the Borg's main hat, on the basis that "We never seen on screen the Borg resist kinetic attack, so they can't resist".

Have I summarised the trap?

Not quite. The trap is that the position is indefensible. Trying to defend it with a no-limits fallacy simply makes it easier to rip apart.

You will have to do better than that. "Indefensible"? No-limits fallacy?

Darn. He's trapping me! Baiting and luring me into the argument! Disengage, disengage!!!

[Deepcrush]

The issue with the Borg is simple. In Trek, defending against particle weapons is easier then defending against projectile weapons. Drones most likely don't have the power needed to generate a defense against the sheer force they would take from kinetic impact.

[SolkaTruesilver]

In Trek, defending against particle weapons is easier then defending against projectile weapons.

that is a good point you raise. I don't remember the issue being specifically adressed. Where do you take that?