Starfleet personal

[Teaos]

We know both Picard and Wesley were not granted access first attempt. And despite our feelings on his character Wesley was smart as anyone and had first had starship experience.

I believe Tasha Yar had some problems aswell and other have mentioned how hardcore it is at the academy. Even Data didn't get top in class if I remember correctly and he pretty much knows everything.

Also from what we've seen Starfleet personal although lacking in a few skills like ground tactics ect seem to have great knowledge in a wide range of very advanced fields.

Also given the number of people in Starfleet, I believe someone presented the number 1.5 million once, which out of the possible figure of 1-3 trillion people is a tiny fraction of the population.

So just how elite are Starfleet?

[Monroe]

Good point. Although with the dawn of the Dominion War and the desperate need for Starfleet to expand I very much doubt that its still that hard to get into the Academy. They would have to have lowered the standards to deal with the war and fill up those mothball fleets with warm bodies.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

They would have to have lowered the standards to deal with the war and fill up those mothball fleets with warm bodies.

Bow chicka bow wow

[Captain Seafort]

Also from what we've seen Starfleet personal although lacking in a few skills like ground tactics ect seem to have great knowledge in a wide range of very advanced fields.

You say this as if it's a good thing - it's not.

Science and engineering require tremendous specialisation, as Thorin would undoubtedly be able the elaborate on. Adding irrelevant nonsense such as Greek, Latin, philosophy, biochemistry, etc wastes time and detracts from that specialisation. Plus, given the sheer weight of stuff engineering students in particular have to get through (lectures, labs, reports, ad infinity) they'd never finish the course if they had all this other junk thrown in on top of it.

Also given the number of people in Starfleet, I believe someone presented the number 1.5 million once, which out of the possible figure of 1-3 trillion people is a tiny fraction of the population.

That number is ridiculously small - the PLA has more men than that. Assuming a fleet of 10,000 ships, with 500 men each, means Starfleet requires five million men simply to crew its ships. Filling hundreds of starbases, plus the academy, plus military attaches, plus HQ, would probably add tens of millions more.

So just how elite are Starfleet?

I'd say their weapons handling skills are exceptional - the fact that they can actually hit anything with the type IIs is evidence of that. Beyond that I'm somewhat skeptical.

[Monroe]

Maybe 1.5 million is their officer corps, not the scientists or noncoms. Though we kind of stopped seeing noncomissioned officers in the later series besides maybe O'Brien.

[Captain Seafort]

Maybe 1.5 million is their officer corps, not the scientists or noncoms. Though we kind of stopped seeing noncomissioned officers in the later series besides maybe O'Brien.

That would make sense, if Starfleet had a proper officer corps. In practice, O'Brien, and his engineering crew on the Defiant appear to be the only "other ranks" in Starfleet. Even O'Brien spent most of TNG as a commisioned officer, and was only bumped down to CPO when the plot of "Realm of Fear" required Barclay (who was a Lt j.g. at the time) to outrank him.

[Mikey]

I hate to say it if it wasn't onscreen, but I think we must, purely for practicality's sake, assume the existence of "crewwen," middies, or whatever you want to call them. However, it would appear that Starfleet suffers the same issue as many modern armies - an awfully high ratio of officers/NCO's to actual personnel.

*EDIT* that is, of course "crewmen," not "crewwen."

[Teaos]

I sont think having a wide range of skills is a bad thing. We've seen it come in handy many times and the ones who seem to have the best knowledge are the command crew implying that people like engineers really do specialise more.

[Captain Seafort]

I sont think having a wide range of skills is a bad thing. We've seen it come in handy many times and the ones who seem to have the best knowledge are the command crew implying that people like engineers really do specialise more.

Having a wide range of skills is a good thing. First Aid, a basic introduction to diplomacy, starships tactics, alien cultures, intelligence-gathering techniques - that's the sort of thing that would be useful to a command-branch officer. The ability to speak Latin, or hold a complicated debate with Aristotole the next time the run into a temporal wotzit is not a skill in this context - it's at best interesting trivia.

[Teaos]

When I said they seemed to have a wide range of knowledge on pretty advanced fields I was refering to the fact that pretty much any command officer we've seen can keep up with people in any department in their field. They wont be as good obviously but given the advanced nature of each field to even be able to understand let alone talk about them is highly impressive. That implies they are rather eilte.

[Sionnach Glic]

It's impresive, but it's also useless. What need is there for a captain to understand the complexities of fixing a warp core when he has a trained corps of engineers on board? What need is there for a captain to understand matters of science that mean nothing to his job when he has a team of scientists on board?

[Teaos]

It i useful for a captain to know their ship and how it works. It is useful to have someone push themselves to the limit of thier ability so you get the best of them they can possibly be.

[Sionnach Glic]

Not when they have to spend extra years of training learning stuff that has no relevance or use to his position it isn't.

[Captain Seafort]

Basic knowlege is essential (ie losing antimatter containment is bad), but a commader doesn't need to know all the ins and outs of how the warp core operates. All the CO needs to know is how much power is available, and what the ship can do with it. If more information is required, that's what the Chief Engineer's for - to advise him.

[Sionnach Glic]

Exactly. Does the captain of an aircraft carrier know how his ship's nuclear reactor works? He may know a small bit, but not much.