Yet more Traviss BS

[Sionnach Glic]

*sigh* Quotes from a mini-book written by Traviss included in the paperback edition of Sacrafice. Quotes and stuff stolen shamelessly from SDN.

The opening quote:

Warmaster, we think too often in terms of dualism: Jedi or Sith, light or dark, right or wrong. But there are three sides to this blade, not two, opposed and similar at the same time. The third edge is the Mandalorian. All three sides care nothing for caste or species, only adherence to a code that unites. The Mandalorians remain: the most formidable enemy of the Jedi: but the Sith are not always their allies. The Mandatorians even worshipped war itself, then simply turned their backs on their god. You might begin to understand them one day.

-Vergere, explaining galactic politics to the Yuuzhan Vong shortly before their invasion of the galaxy, 25 A.B.Y.

And later on, we have this exchange between Fett and Nom Anor:

You still try to bargain with me," said Nom Anor.


"That's my price. It goes up when I find clients haven't been totally open with me." Like not mentioning a galactic invasion. Fett was the one doing the buying now, though: he was buying time. "You're going to have to fight for every meter of ground here. Thousands of sentient species, countless worlds, and every one will put up a fight. You need us. If only to deal with the Jedi."

Emphasis mine.
Yeah, good thing the Vong had the Mandalorians backing them up. Otherwise, they'd have been completely powerless against the Jedi!
Oh....wait.

Jesus. I'm seriously hoping some writer is getting just as pissed off with the Mando-wank as the fans, and writes into his/her novel the complete destruction of the Mandalorians and the unarguable death of Boba Fett at the hands of a handful of Jedi.
That's what I'd do at least.

[Duskofdead]

I haven't read the book so I can't comment specifically to that point, but that's why I think I never got into the extended universe stuff, and to be honest, the reason Star Wars in general interests me in only a passing way. It's way too many people with way too many takes on it all getting to have thier way at the same time, and the world just has a generic feel to it. I imagine it is like what would happen if everyone on this site got to write their own Trek universe books and they were all published together, it would Frankenstein the universe beyond recongition.

[Sionnach Glic]

Trek already has quite a large EU. And I gotta say that its far more crazy and uncontrolled than the SW one.
Although you're correct that most of the EU is crap. Traviss is just the icing on the cake,

[Duskofdead]

Trek already has quite a large EU. And I gotta say that its far more crazy and uncontrolled than the SW one.
Although you're correct that most of the EU is crap. Traviss is just the icing on the cake,

The difference being, I doubt that many serious Trek fans take their EU seriously. Hell a lot of us haven't even read the EU. But SW fans? Practically religious, they can recite verbatim interview statements Lucas gave about how the EU is not canon, yet they'll have read every single book. Quite honestly you almost have to read the SW EU if you are a SW fan because Lucas himself is so vague and there's only six movies to go on (three of which most people don't care for) so you're stuck between a rock and a hard place. Accept the EU, knowing it isn't canon, or stick with canon, which is limited and generic. Tough choice. That's why I stick to Trek

[Reliant121]

I know i dont take Trek EU to seriously...the Vanguard books started going on about a race of weird people that once ruled the Galaxy with the Tholians as slaves which they named Telinaruul...

Since when is that canon eh?

and this Traviss guy sounds demented.

[Captain Seafort]

The difference being, I doubt that many serious Trek fans take their EU seriously. Hell a lot of us haven't even read the EU. But SW fans? Practically religious, they can recite verbatim interview statements Lucas gave about how the EU is not canon, yet they'll have read every single book. Quite honestly you almost have to read the SW EU if you are a SW fan because Lucas himself is so vague and there's only six movies to go on (three of which most people don't care for) so you're stuck between a rock and a hard place. Accept the EU, knowing it isn't canon, or stick with canon, which is limited and generic. Tough choice. That's why I stick to Trek

The biggest reason is because the SW EU is canon, whereas the ST EU isn't. There's also the fact that there's been new visual Trek produced regularly since TMP, whereas SW had a huge gap between RotJ and TPM, leaving only the EU to fill the gap.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

I think the ST approach has proven to be a hell of a lot better. A lot more 'pick and choose' in what you like/want in your personal canon.

[Captain Seafort]

and this Traviss guy sounds demented.

"Demented" isn't the phrase I'd use for Karen Traviss. Given that her reaction to people pointing out a poor sense of scale in her GAR orbat was "my gut reaction is that they all need garroting", and discussing "ripping someones trachea out of their pitiful unworthy neck", I think the term "psychopath" would be more appropriate.

[Reliant121]

dear god....

[Captain Seafort]

Jesus. I'm seriously hoping some writer is getting just as pissed off with the Mando-wank as the fans, and writes into his/her novel the complete destruction of the Mandalorians and the unarguable death of Boba Fett at the hands of a handful of Jedi.
That's what I'd do at least.

Alternatively, Fett could be killed off by a blind man flailing around with a stick. Again.

[Duskofdead]

and this Traviss guy sounds demented.

"Demented" isn't the phrase I'd use for Karen Traviss. Given that her reaction to people pointing out a poor sense of scale in her GAR orbat was "my gut reaction is that they all need garroting", and discussing "ripping someones trachea out of their pitiful unworthy neck", I think the term "psychopath" would be more appropriate.

The sad part is this is not sensationally out of line of the mentality of hardcore SW fans I've encountered around the net and sci fi forums. In fact I'm hard put to name any who weren't secret closet Empire lovers.

[Tsukiyumi]

Alternatively, Fett could be killed off by a blind man flailing around with a stick. Again.

"Boba Fett? Boba Fett? Where?"

[Captain Seafort]

The sad part is this is not sensationally out of line of the mentality of hardcore SW fans I've encountered around the net and sci fi forums. In fact I'm hard put to name any who weren't secret closet Empire lovers.

On the contrary. While there are one or two places with a somewhat aggressive approch to debate, I'd be astonished to hear of anywhere where a mild "I don't think that's accurate" would be met with such graphically expressed venom.

As for "closet Empire lovers", I fail to see how recognising the failures of the Old and New Republics and the GA (which I assume you're refering to) equates to loving the Empire.

[Duskofdead]

The sad part is this is not sensationally out of line of the mentality of hardcore SW fans I've encountered around the net and sci fi forums. In fact I'm hard put to name any who weren't secret closet Empire lovers.

On the contrary. While there are one or two places with a somewhat aggressive approch to debate, I'd be astonished to hear of anywhere where a mild "I don't think that's accurate" would be met with such graphically expressed venom.

As for "closet Empire lovers", I fail to see how recognising the failures of the Old and New Republics and the GA (which I assume you're refering to) equates to loving the Empire.

Well you are dragging me into an argument I didn't make. I don't know where the comment about Old/New Republic came from, because I never followed any such argument nor care to. But for a brief time I was on a SW site before discovering DITL... I can't remember which one, but it was a fairly major one. At any rate the overall mood and attitudes there were little short of fascist, and I mean that without exaggeration. The people who defended the Empire probably outnumbered everyone else about 8 to 1.

And regarding the first part.... yes, I've seen many a hardcore SW forumer around the net flip out on people, resort to ad hominem as the very first line of response in any disagreement, etc. By comparison Trek foumers are vastly more civilized in my experiences.

[Captain Seafort]

Well you are dragging me into an argument I didn't make. I don't know where the comment about Old/New Republic came from, because I never followed any such argument nor care to.

My apologies, I assumed the reference to "Empire lovers" referred to the opinions I've seen frequently expressed that the Old Republic was institutionally corrupt long before Palpatine came along (not really disputable, given that it was much of the plot of TPM), and the New Republic was grossly stupid, especially during the Vong War.

At any rate the overall mood and attitudes there were little short of fascist, and I mean that without exaggeration. The people who defended the Empire probably outnumbered everyone else about 8 to 1.

Defended the Empire in what way? Politically, or in the sense that it was far better prepared for conflict than any of the Republics?

And regarding the first part.... yes, I've seen many a hardcore SW forumer around the net flip out on people, resort to ad hominem as the very first line of response in any disagreement, etc. By comparison Trek foumers are vastly more civilized in my experiences.

From what I've seen, stupid and/or uncivilised Trekkies are about as common as stupid and/or uncivilised Warsies.