Why Didn't Nog Assume Command Of The Valient?

Blackstar the Chakat · Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:22 pm

I think Admiral Ross was the one in charge in that area. He just happenens to command fleet operations in the same area as our heroes operated in. And we did see other Admirals around when Sisko proposed the plan to retake DS9.

As for the Picard thing, I think the battle was going poorly and the chain of command was breaking down. Cut off the head and the body will fall. You don't exactly have a lot of time to check who's in charge in a losing battle. When Picard showed up and began giving orders the other captains figured either he was appointed by Starfleet Command or it was just a better idea then shooting at random.

Post by **Teaos** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:11 am

Maybe Ross was the best combat Admiral so they made sure there was no one out ranking him around so he had control.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:36 pm

That's quite possible.

Post by **Mikey** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:05 pm

I'm sure that, like other personnel, admirals can be assigned to departments based on their abilities.

Ross, for example, may not have outranked any other given admiral, but had the responsibilty for the local war effort because he had more talent for strategy (although he didn't quite show that onscreen...). Even a higher-ranking or more senior admiral from, say, the JAG dept. would defer to Ross about decisions on the war effort itself, because that is Ross' sphere of influence.

Post by **Teaos** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:08 pm

Exactly. Thats more or less what I've been getting at. The only difference is I think he would hold out right command while other think he would just advise the higher ranking officer.

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:09 pm

Thorin wrote:I never get things like that. They always seem to be one admiral controlling everything. Not even a full admiral or fleet admiral. I mean, surely the leader of starfleet should be controlling things like the inevitable destruction of earth? Not one of many vice admirals? Always irked me.

Hardly unheard of though - the most important naval battle of the Napoleonic Wars was delegated to a Vice-Admiral, so there's RL precident.

Thorin · Post by **Thorin** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:09 pm

Captain Seafort wrote:
Thorin wrote:I never get things like that. They always seem to be one admiral controlling everything. Not even a full admiral or fleet admiral. I mean, surely the leader of starfleet should be controlling things like the inevitable destruction of earth? Not one of many vice admirals? Always irked me.
Hardly unheard of though - the most important naval battle of the Napoleonic Wars was delegated to a Vice-Admiral, so there's RL precident.

There is/was only one vice admiral in the Royal Navy (it is more complicated during the Napoleonic wars, where there were 3 ranks of vice admiral). In fact, I believe it is only commodore (and below) where we start having more than one person for each rank. In SF, there are tens (maybe hundreds) of vice admirals, and definitely tens of admirals, and a fleet admiral. Ross didn't just control a localised war effort, he seemed to control the entire war from the Federation's point of view.

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:25 pm

Thorin wrote:There is/was only one vice admiral in the Royal Navy (it is more complicated during the Napoleonic wars, where there were 3 ranks of vice admiral). In fact, I believe it is only commodore (and below) where we start having more than one person for each rank. In SF, there are tens (maybe hundreds) of vice admirals, and definitely tens of admirals, and a fleet admiral. Ross didn't just control a localised war effort, he seemed to control the entire war from the Federation's point of view.

There are plenty of Vice-Admirals - Equipment Support (Sea), Deputy Commander Fleet, and Flag Officer Surface Flotilla at least. The multiple grades of Admiral during the Napoleonic Wars weren't separate ranks but a method of determining seniority within a single rank, and elevation from Blue to White and finally Red was determined purely on time-in-grade.

Thorin · Post by **Thorin** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:23 pm

Captain Seafort wrote:
Thorin wrote:There is/was only one vice admiral in the Royal Navy (it is more complicated during the Napoleonic wars, where there were 3 ranks of vice admiral). In fact, I believe it is only commodore (and below) where we start having more than one person for each rank. In SF, there are tens (maybe hundreds) of vice admirals, and definitely tens of admirals, and a fleet admiral. Ross didn't just control a localised war effort, he seemed to control the entire war from the Federation's point of view.
There are plenty of Vice-Admirals - Equipment Support (Sea), Deputy Commander Fleet, and Flag Officer Surface Flotilla at least. The multiple grades of Admiral during the Napoleonic Wars weren't separate ranks but a method of determining seniority within a single rank, and elevation from Blue to White and finally Red was determined purely on time-in-grade.

Incorrect, promotions were caused only by the death of the higher grade admiral - so for Horatio Nelson to control the naval war effort isn't that exceptional - he was the 5th highest ranked naval officer, and also its noteworthy he actually fought the battles, whereas I don't believe Ross ever did. Also Vice Admiral Nelson could not declare a naval ceasefire with the French. Unlike Ross.
However, my point is that Fleet Admiral in the Royal Navy doesn't even exist, and we have only one Admiral (who is the First Sea Lord). For Ross, who is probably about 50th ranked in Starfleet, to control an entire war, is a bit absurd, don't you think?

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:24 pm

Do we know how many people were above Ross in the chain of command?

Post by **Mikey** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:25 pm

All I know is that it seems like Starfleet has one admiral for every three ships...

Thorin · Post by **Thorin** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:28 pm

Rochey wrote:Do we know how many people were above Ross in the chain of command?

It's a guestimate. But even not in Starfleet, the Federation council must outrank the Fleet Admiral. Like how the Defence Secretary outranks the First Sea Lord. It looked Like Ross was controlling it himself, didn't it?

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:30 pm

*shrug*

I need to watch it again before I comment further on it. So I'll back out for now.

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:26 pm

It's not without precedent for Ross to conduct negotations with a hostile force, since Somerville and Cunningham were given the task of negotiating the surrender of the French Mediterranean forces in June 1940, and Cunningham extended the negotiations beyond Churchill's deadline.

Post by **Mikey** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:29 pm

And MacArthur accepted the Japanese surrender aboard the Missouri; and Stilwell basically dictated the policy of the US both militarily and economically to Chiang Kai-Shek in WWII...