Akira Class

[Tsukiyumi]

Retarded **** in one movie does not excuse the same **** in a different movie. That said TWOK was awesome because of Ricardo Montalbán, Shatner and Nimoy's acting. The same thing that made Space Seed awesome. In the TNG movies it seemed like everyone but Stewart phoned it in. The guy who played Shinzon could have been replaced by a hagfish and we would have got a better movie.

Movies stand and fall on the actors.

Actually, great acting can never save a crappy script. With out a good concept, and good script, you could cast all the best actors who've ever lived, and still get crap for a finished product.

Apparently, you missed my point that if you enjoy the story, and the acting is good (which it was IMO), you should excuse a few holes. Especially when your movie was rushed and a little light on budget.

The only reason I said anything, is that everyone trashes on Nemesis, but I'm sure you can find a bunch of contrived crap in even the best Star Trek movie, if you go looking for it.

[Sionnach Glic]

Those weren't the only reasons Nemesis sucked, Tsu. The villain was ridiculous, and poorly thought out, he acted idiocticaly throughout the entire film, his motives were plain stupid, his superweapon was similarly poor, the entire situation was contrived and even the battle wasn't great.

I'll once again refer to this deconstruction of the idiocy in that film.

There's a difference between having a few holes in a good film, and watching crap that looks like Swiss Cheese.

[Captain Seafort]

Yes, it's stupid that Shinzon didn't just beam Picard off the ship instead of beaming in a cannon-fodder assault team (also dumb that the most experienced tactical officer on board would go to engage them, along with the First Officer).

That's one of the few cases in Nemesis where there isn't a problem - they mentioned that only the lower Engineering hull had lost shields. Other than the points you mentioned we also have, in no particular order:

Thaleron radiation destroys organic material at the subatomic level.

Data downloads his entire memory into B-4, presumably including a variety of classified information, without even a mention of Lore.

Shinzon's too stupid to simply beam Picard off the E-E as soon as it arrives.

Shinzon's too stupid to reverse when Picard tried his ramming trick.

The E-E's lighting was very low in the battle with the Remans - despite the fact that ramping up the lighting would have been an effective weapon against them.

Nobody thought to mention the fact that the Bassen Rift interfered with sensors and comms until they were entering it.

Shinzon didn't disable the E-E at the same time he captured Picard.

Shinzon wasted time gloating after capturing Picard rather than beginning the transfusion immediately.

In Wrath of Khan, Kirk conveniently forgets a basic regulation, which allows the Enterprise to get pasted.

A big mistake - but one that was acknowledged as a mistake by Kirk. Not one you can really blame him for either, given that Reliant was a Starfleet ship.

Khan somehow doesn't know about Z-axis manuvering? Come on. The guy is super-intelligent, right?

"Intelligent, but not experienced." I'd be more worried about the fact that Kirk didn't think of it untill Spock pointed it out.

Regula Station, the site of a super-secret, super-important experiment, is completely unarmed and undefended? How stupid is Starfleet?

Regula was a civilian project, albeit with some Starfleet support. It can probably be explained as Starfleet Command not believing that Genesis would work.

There is a creature on Ceti Alpha 5 that conveniently allows people to be mind-controlled? Wow.

Yes. It's act of plot, but it doesn't require convoluted explanations.

Funny that no one ever went back to check on these super-badass Augments, huh? Did Kirk and the whole Enterprise crew just forget to log that incident, or what?

Chekov clearly remembered. Given that marooning Khan was a somewhat unofficial act on Kirk's part, and C-A 5 was a tough but inhabitable world, why would he go back?

The Genesis Device somehow turns a nebula into a planet? How large and dense was this nebula?

Big enough to make a planet out of, evidently. A bigger question would be where all the energy went - possibly into the future to blow up the planet in ST3.

[Aaron]

Actually, great acting can never save a crappy script. With out a good concept, and good script, you could cast all the best actors who've ever lived, and still get crap for a finished product.

That is easily dismissed by looking at the Bond franchise, IE: the Connery years.

Apparently, you missed my point that if you enjoy the story, and the acting is good (which it was IMO), you should excuse a few holes. Especially when your movie was rushed and a little light on budget.

Movie taste is subjective.

The only reason I said anything, is that everyone trashes on Nemesis, but I'm sure you can find a bunch of contrived crap in even the best Star Trek movie, if you go looking for it.

Of course you can. You could nitpick Fiddler on the Roof if you wanted too. The problem is when these things become greater than the sum of their parts and you can't ignore it anymore.

[Tsukiyumi]

Yeah, Shinzon was a pretty "Doctor Evil" sort of villain, a bit over-the-top, but if you spend enough time in the company of insane people, you'd find that many of them are over-the-top in reality. If you guys could meet Uzume in person, you'd get it.

Almost every one of the Star Trek movies is contrived, if you choose to see it that way. Going back in time to save whales? Really? Spock's body magically regenerates after death, and Spock conveniently had enough time to give McCoy his katra? The Klingon moon conveniently blows up, and they are forced to ask the Federation for help? A magical time-rift happens to pick up Captain Kirk so he can help Captain Picard on-screen?

The Borg conveniently only send one more Cube, even though they are stated to have thousands? Hey, the Queen's on board! We didn't even know they had a Queen! Good thing the Borg waited until our new, bad-ass ship was finished before attacking again, or Picard & Co. couldn't have travelled back in time to meet their hero and interact with quasi-modern people so that a general audience can hear exposition explaining everything that's happening.

That was my point. If I wanted to, I could trash on any one of the Star Trek scripts, acting, special effects, or any number of other aspects of the whole franchise just as effectively as the review Rochey linked to.

I choose not to, because I love 'Trek.

[Sionnach Glic]

Yeah, Shinzon was a pretty "Doctor Evil" sort of villain, a bit over-the-top, but if you spend enough time in the company of insane people, you'd find that many of them are over-the-top in reality.

He wasn't "over-the-top", he was taken straight out of a cartoon.

Romulan 1: "Yeah, let's make a clone of Picard."
Romulan 2: "Sure, great idea."
Romulan 1: "Whoah, he looks nothing like Picard."
Romulan 2: "Yeah, so much for cloning, I guess. What'll we do with him?""
Romulan 1: "Meh, throw him into the mines as a slave."
*later*
Shinzon: "Muahahahaha! Somehow, I've managed to escape the mines and staged an uprising with my loyal army of Remans who somehow didn't get blasted from orbit the moment they started attacking the Romulan Empire."
Romulan leader: "Screw Shinzon. Hey...is this a bomb?"
*bang*
Shinzon: "Muahahahaha! I've somehow developed this new superweapon and snuck it into the most important place in the Romulan Empire. Well, so much for security."
Romulan people: "Well, our leaders are dead. Who'll we let be in charge now?"
Shinzon: *whispering* "Psst! Me!"
Romulan people: "Yeah, sure. I mean, I can't really see any reason why not to.
Shinzon: "Muahahahaha! I have taken over the Romulan Empire! Now, I need to abduct Picard and drink his blood. Wait....when did I become a frickin' vampire?"
*later*
Picard: "Geez. We've been waiting around here for hours already. Where is this guy?"
Romulan guy: "Sorry to keep you waiting. Our leader is dieing, and needs to drink your blood very soon. Which is exactly why we spent so long not abducting you.....yeah....."
*later*
Shinzon: "Muahahahaha! You see Picard, I am a clone of you!"
Picard: "Then why do you look nothing like me?"
Shinzon: "Shitty writing. Just pretend to be stunned."
Picard: "Ah, okay."
Shinzon: "Anyway, I desperately need to drink your blood very soon or I will die. Which is why I'm not going to do anything, and just have dinner with you tomorow. Because I'm in such a hurry to drink your blood. Yep."
*the next day*
Shinzon: "You see, Picard, I was tortured and beaten in the mines for many years. And that's why I want to bring the Romulans to dominate the galaxy. Muahahahaha!"
Picard: "Wait, hang on, that made absolutely no sense at all. Are we reading the same scripts here?"
Shinzon: "Yes, it's just that stupid. Oh, and I also hate humanity.....because I'm a human."
Picard: "You do realise that makes even less -"
Shinzon: "Yeah, yeah, I know. Just go along with it, okay?"
Picard: "Right, fine, whatever."
Shinzon: "Anyway, since I badly need to drink your blood, how about you run on back to your ship now. Because there's absolutely no way for me to capture you when you're all alone with no support on my super-dooper flagship."
*later, on the Enterprise E*
Shinzon: "Muahahahaha! Because I badly need to do things quickly before I die, I'm going to waste time mind-fucking Troi. Yes, I'm just that evil."
*later*
Geordi: "ZOMG! They're stealing the Captain! What a shocking twist!"
Riker: "Okay, anyone in the audience who didn't see that coming, please remove yourselves from the genepool ASAP."
*later, on the Scimitar*
Shinzon: "Muahahahaha! I kidnapped you, Picard! I bet you never saw that coming! Now, because we need to hurry up or I'll die, I'm going to stand here laughing at you for the next hour or so, and then just leave you alone and do nothing. Muahahahaha!"
Picard: "Wait, shouldn't you be drinking my blood about now?"
Shinzon: "Yes.........."
Picard: "And you're not going to actualy do this at all, despite having me at your mercy?"
Shinzon: "Nope."
Picard: "Right......"
*later*
Data: "Hello, Captain. It's a good thing Shinzon doesn't bother to keep an eye on a member of his crew who has an exact opposite on the enemy ship. Can you believe how stupid this guy is?"
Picard: "Yeah, good thing he doesn't bother with a little thing like security."
*later*
Shinzon: "Curses! I completely did not see my henchman's exact opposite sneaking aboard! Oh, well, I guess I'll go blow up Earth now. You know, because I'm evil and hate humans....despite being one of them. Yeah, this makes perfect sense."
*later*
Riker: "Okay, Captain, here's the plan. We're going to fly into this nebula that stops communications and sensors working. There's a fleet waiting on the other side for us."
Picard: "Riker, that is without doubt the dumbest plan you've ever come up with."
Riker: "Oh....so, we won't be heading into the obvious ambush?"
Picard: "Hey, what the hell do you think I am? Competant? Of course we're going into the obvious ambush!"
*later*
Shinzon: "Muahahahaha! I ambushed them! I bet no one saw that coming!"
Picard: "Damn, we were ambushed. I totaly did not see that coming! Too bad we can't target their invisible ship. Let's just fire blind in the vain hope of hitting something."
Shinzon: "Helm! Take us as close to their ship as you can possibly get so it's even easier for them to hit us!"
Picard: "Wow, we can fire blind and still kick the crap out of his ship. Jeez, where the hell did this guy learn tactics?"
Shinzon: "Damn, they're somehow able to hit my super-invisible ship!"
Cannon Fodder Romulans: "Picard, we're here to help you defeat Shinzon because.......uh.....yeah."
Picard: "Look, if you wanted to kill him, why not just assasinate him on the ground, rather than trying to take down his super-ship?"
Cannon Fodder Romulans: ".........."
Shinzon: "Damn, they're still hitting us! Target the Romulans!"
Cannon Fodder Romulans: "Arrrgghhh!" *exit stage left*
Picard: "Jeez, well they were a great help."
*later*
Shinzon: "Muahahahaha! We brought down their shields! Now, beam a team in to capture Picard!"
Picard: "Damn, they're beaming troops in! Right, I want all important officers to leave their stations in the middle of this vicious battle, and go to the other side of the ship."
Riker: "Whoooo! I get to be an action hero!"
Picard: "Oh, crap, Shinzon just knocked out my weapons. Gee, I guess I should have actualy kept the officer doing their jobs. Well, let's ram his super ship which has stopped in front of us for no apparant reason!"
Reman Pilot: "Uh...Sir? They're heading right for us. Should we get out of the way?"
Shinzon: "No, let's just wallow around in space for a minute. That oughta get rid of them."
*bang*
Shinzon: "Whoops, damn, I really thought that would work...."
*later*
Picard: "Right, I'm going over completely on my own to take on Shinzon. I'm not taking any back up, support, or even a second gun. And I certainly amn't thinking of beaming a bomb over! That's just how smart I am."
Data: "Okay, I'm now going to jump across space to the Scimitar.....despite having tonnes of different ways to get across that are far less risky. Yeah....."
Picard: "Whoooo! I never would have guessed a 60 year old starship captain could take on the entire crew of a super-ship single handedly and win!"
Shinzon: "Muahahahaha! I will now beat you in hand to hand combat!"
Picard: "Why the hell don't you just shoot me? There's plenty of weapons lying around."
Shinzon: "Quiet!"
*one fight scene later*
Shinzon: "Wow, I guess running straight into a spikey pole was a bad idea. Arghhhhhhhhhhh........" *exit stage right*
Picard: "Whew, now to sacrafice myself to blow up the super ship that's taking a freaking hour to blow up one defenceless ship."
Data: "Don't worry, I'm going to sacrafice myself instead. Except my brain has been downloaded into B4 to cheapen my death even further."
*bang*
Picard: "Yay! We beat Shinzon and saved the Earth!"
Riker: "Yay! I got to be an action hero!"
Troi: "Yay! I got to add nothing to the plot by being mind-raped!"
B4: "Yay! My subplot was actualy relevant!"
Cannon Fodder Romulans: "Yay! You did what we couldn't be bothered to do!"
Federation Fleet: "Yay! We were totaly irrelevant to the film!"
Audience: "Yay! The idiocy has ended!"
*end of film*

And that's why Shinzon gains the award of Worst Villain Ever for Trek.

[Captain Seafort]

*snip comedy GOLD*

That was magnificent!

[Sionnach Glic]

I do try. 8)
I was going to just pick out Shinzon's stupid moments, but then I realised that that was every part of the film he was involved in.

[Tsukiyumi]

Okay, you laughed me into submission. It sucks when deconstructed. I guess all the stuff blowing up blinded me to the ridiculous circumstances (which do occur in reality sometimes).

My point about deconstructing any one of the movies still stands, however.

[Sionnach Glic]

Okay, you laughed me into submission. It sucks when deconstructed. I guess all the stuff blowing up blinded me to the ridiculous circumstances (which do occur in reality sometimes).

Ah, yes. Mockery; the greatest weapon in the universe.

My point about deconstructing any one of the movies still stands, however.

Oh, great, now I've got an urge to do a parody of them, too.

[Captain Seafort]

Oh, great, now I've got an urge to do a parody of them, too.

Try Insurrection: it's almost as juicy a target as Nemesis.

[Tsukiyumi]

Oh, great, now I've got an urge to do a parody of them, too.

I had the same urge as soon as I read that.

[Sionnach Glic]

If anyone's interested I've expanded the Nemesis mock script here and will be doing the others there, too.