Excelsior Class Discussion

[Deepcrush]

Both of you fail to realize that fusion and impulse are two completely different things.
Fusion reactors are a source of power.
Impulse drives are a source of propulsion.

And yes, plasma would be a byproduct of a fusion reaction, hence an exaust from the impulse engines of a starship.

IIRC, by the 24th century they had found a way to mask the plasma emissions.

Then why do they make such an effort to distance the two? Why not say the Fusion reactors from out Impulse engines are down?

[Deepcrush]

Or to put it another way, you have absolutely ZERO evidence that they used anything other than fusion reactors in the TOS era, or that TOS era impulse reactors were different from those of other eras. Yes, they never explicitly mentioned fusion, but they sure as hell never mentioned any "plasma drive".

Sorry, just read this.

Again the "absolute" line from someone who hasn't come back with a counter. Running around yelling "Nuh uh!" doesn't count as a counter point. Either find something to back what you're saying or shut up.

[stitch626]

Fusion and Impluse are spoken of as two different things in trek. If you don't like that then go join Prea over at the kiddy table for pout time. Or go find a qoute from trek that says Fusion and Impulse are one in the same even if they speak of them differently. Those are your choices.

We aren't saying they are the same thing, because they aren't.
Fusion=power
Impulse=propulsion

I've said it at least three times now and you still don't get it.

Fusion reactors are the secondary power system in Trek. Just like M/AM reactors are primary.

Impulse engines are just the sublight propulsion units used by the Feds.
No where have we said that fusion and impulse are the same. Stop arguing over something that is only in your mind.
And absolutly nothing in TOS precludes the use of fusion reactors as a secondary power source.

[Lazar]

Lazar, go watch this and you'll see where I'm coming from.

Why don't you just tell me what line you're referring to? I guess I'd be able to watch it on Hulu later this afternoon, but why can't you tell me now?

Why not say the Fusion reactors from out Impulse engines are down?

I would imagine because the fusion reactor is a part of the impulse engine.

[stitch626]

I would imagine because the fusion reactor is a part of the impulse engine.

Actually, no.
As I've said four times, the fusion reactors only provide secondary power, which is used by the impulse engines.

[Deepcrush]

Impulse engines are just the sublight propulsion units used by the Feds.
No where have we said that fusion and impulse are the same. Stop arguing over something that is only in your mind.
And absolutly nothing in TOS precludes the use of fusion reactors as a secondary power source.

Scotty spoke out against such things. That's is enough for me. Yet again I hear people with yelling absolute without showing anything in return. I never said they didn't HAVE fusion in TOS. I said M/AM is a more prefered power source. Try to keep up.

[Lazar]

Scotty spoke out against such things.

Just tell me the fucking quote then! I don't see any TOS-era quotes about fusion, one way or another, in the previously linked SDN database.

[Graham Kennedy]

You're on the wrong ep about the wrong topic bud. No one is questioning that an Impulse engine works the way an Impulse engine works. You're thinking Balance of Terror with the Romulan BoP. We're talking about M/AM vs Fusion which Scotty pointed out to a younger race that their fusion reactors aren't as powerful as SF's Impulse drives.

I haven't followed this but hang on a sec, is that Elaan of Troyius you're talking about? Scotty didn't say impulse was superior to fusion. He said "nuclear".

Scotty : "Well... I suppose, lassie, that even our impulse engines must seem fast compared to your nuclear propulsion units."

I took that to mean that the Troyians and Elasians use a fission rocket engine of some sort, and the fusion-based impulse engines were superior.

[Praeothmin]

I never said they didn't HAVE fusion in TOS. I said M/AM is a more prefered power source. Try to keep up.

Actually, during our debate (well, you were actually debating and I was mixing everything up), you said this:

I never said fusion dipshit. I said generator, that means what ever they feel would suit that section the best. Most likely a M/AM generator. Fusion hasn't been used in over a hundred years at this point. You should really learn about a topic before you jump into a debate over it.

So perhaps this is why they seem to think you believe there are no Fusion reactors in TOS.

Although you are right that there are no direct reference of Fusion powerplants in TOS, there are many for ENT, TNG and DS9 being used for Impulse Engines, such as here:
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Fusion_reactor

Which is why it is logical to believe that they were also used in TOS for the same application, just like your argument that more massive ships needed more energy for their engines (which was just as logical).

Just my 2 cents from the kiddie corner where I'm pouting...

[Lazar]

This promotional site, which clearly gets its info from Abrams et al., says that the impulse engines on the Kelvin are powered by fusion reactors.

[Mikey]

Actually, Deep, you did say that fusion generation wasn't used, and sort of backed it by way of saying that impulse thrust was provided by plasma exhaust. What folks have been trying to tell you is that the type of exhaust doesn't speak to the type of power generation, and vice verse. And since we have fusion being used in TNG+ along with Scotty's quote from TNG: "Relics," it is safe to say that TOS used similar power generation.

[Lazar]

Actually, Deep, you did say that fusion generation wasn't used, and sort of backed it by way of saying that impulse thrust was provided by plasma exhaust. What folks have been trying to tell you is that the type of exhaust doesn't speak to the type of power generation, and vice verse. And since we have fusion being used in TNG+ along with Scotty's quote from TNG: "Relics," it is safe to say that TOS used similar power generation.

Exactly. Deep, my point is basically this: in your exchange with Tsuki, you took references to plasma as positive evidence that they didn't have fusion reactors and that they did have something non-fusion-based called plasma drives, and that just doesn't make sense because a fusion-powered drive would produce plasma. These references don't say explicitly how the plasma is produced, one way or another, so based on these alone, it's as likely to be fusion as anything else. (And don't backtrack on what you were arguing: you explicitly said that fusion hadn't been used for 100 years, and you knocked Tsuki down for suggesting that fusion was used, even though you had exactly zero evidence to prove otherwise.) As GK notes, the Scotty quote does not explicitly mention fusion, and could easily be referring to fission (note that there's no precedent in later Trek for using the term "nuclear" to include fusion); and the references to fusion in the TNG era, the "Relics" quote about impulse technology remaining basically unchanged, the acknowledgment of fusion in writings and blueprints that Okuda, Probert and Sternbach have been involved in, and the recent recognition of fusion by the Abrams crew, all serve to establish a pretty solid consensus that impulse drives are fusion-powered.

[Deepcrush]

Sorry, I was dealing with some people who matter in RL so to pick up where we left off.

Wow, nice to see mikey has fallen in line with the rest of the fuckups here. Whatever, not like I can expect much from people on here as of late anyhow. Back to topic... I NEVER SAID THEY DIDN'T HAVE FUSION REACTORS. I SAID THEY HAD SOMETHING BETTER! If this is more then you guys can take in too your little minds then tough shit. You guys have been running this circle jerk round and round doing everything you can to ignore whats been said just to make yourselves feel right about something as simple as what pushes a ship through space.

[Lazar]

Wow, nice to see mikey has fallen in line with the rest of the fuckups here.

You mean everyone else on the forum, who recognize that you're wrong.

Whatever, not like I can expect much from people on here as of late anyhow.

So why don't you just leave the fucking forum? Nobody's forcing you to be here.

Back to topic... I NEVER SAID THEY DIDN'T HAVE FUSION REACTORS.

Yes you did, you lying schmuck.

Fusion hasn't been used in over a hundred years at this point.

Please reread that, as many times as necessary.

If this is more then you guys can take in too your little minds then tough s**t.

You have no evidence to support your point, so you're bowing out of the argument. I win, you lose.

You guys have been running this circle jerk round and round doing everything you can to ignore whats been said just to make yourselves feel right about something as simple as what pushes a ship through space.

You backed yourself into an idiotic position and you're unwilling to admit that you're wrong.

[Graham Kennedy]

Boys and girls, can we please tone the language down. It really doesn't add anything to an argument to swear at the people you're talking to.