Generations - battle reedit

[bladela]

https://comicbook.com/startrek/2019/07/ ... -fan-edit/

Star Trek Fan Edits Generations Space Battle to Make More Sense

To me it still make far more sense this one :

[McAvoy]

Saw this a few days ago. It does feel better paced.

Though to be honest, I'd like to see a fan made redo of the fight but instead of some old Bird of Prey but a Vorcha class ship.

Instead of the Duras sisters concerned because they were outgunned by the Enterprise but rather their ship is more evenly matched with the Enterprise and not clear on the final outcome. So they do as in the movie and able to fire through their shields and inflict significant damage to the Enterprise. Perhaps cripple one of the nacelles, maybe a near direct hit to the secondary hull etc. Worf states that the Vorcha is a mark 1 original Vorcha not upgraded to fix the same issue as in the actual movie in that you can trigger the cloaking device.

But instead of one torpedo, the Enterprise fires all weapons phasers and several torpedoes when the Vorcha class ship cloaks.

[Graham Kennedy]

Saw this a few days ago. It does feel better paced.

Though to be honest, I'd like to see a fan made redo of the fight but instead of some old Bird of Prey but a Vorcha class ship.

Instead of the Duras sisters concerned because they were outgunned by the Enterprise but rather their ship is more evenly matched with the Enterprise and not clear on the final outcome. So they do as in the movie and able to fire through their shields and inflict significant damage to the Enterprise. Perhaps cripple one of the nacelles, maybe a near direct hit to the secondary hull etc. Worf states that the Vorcha is a mark 1 original Vorcha not upgraded to fix the same issue as in the actual movie in that you can trigger the cloaking device.

But instead of one torpedo, the Enterprise fires all weapons phasers and several torpedoes when the Vorcha class ship cloaks.

Couldn't agree more with most of this.

Worth noting, one of the BoP shots does actually hit a nacelle. Another seems to hit the main impulse engine, though it's not clear.

[McAvoy]

Yeah in the movie the BoP did hit the nacelle and the back og the nacelle. They did hit the secondary hull too.

My idea is that the Enterprise is extremely damaged and you have no doubt that even aftwards the ship is in danger still.

I'd at least want to see the Enterprise fire at least more than one phaser. Even with shields down you would think the ship can still deliver alot of damage. Hell we have seen it in the TV show.

That's just the battle. I would have changed the movie around so that maybe the planet they are on is actually inhabited.

Hell you could make the movie about life or heaven. Like the ribbon destroys planets but takes the living with it in a everlasting state of happiness. So do you allow a whole planet to be destroyed because they will still go to a better place or save them?

[bladela]

I keep my idea (not a movie, but pretending it's a real situation) that Geordie's viewer was not such a big advantage, a random remodulation of the shields (which Worf or Data would be plausible to deal with) would have to make up for it , if (temporarily) it worked with the Borg.

In any case at the end of the comparison the secondary section was certainly very damaged, it is also true that with impulse engines the disk section should have been several thousand kilometers in a few seconds, out of reach of the planet and of the explosion, but the slowness at impulse ships is quite a constant in these situations...just think of the battle of the mutara nebula, two minutes to cover two thousand kilometers ...

[AlexMcpherson79]

The impulse engines work (or dont work) at speed of plot - its why the ship stops when the engines are turned 'off' too.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

Saw this a few days ago. It does feel better paced.

Though to be honest, I'd like to see a fan made redo of the fight but instead of some old Bird of Prey but a Vorcha class ship.

Instead of the Duras sisters concerned because they were outgunned by the Enterprise but rather their ship is more evenly matched with the Enterprise and not clear on the final outcome. So they do as in the movie and able to fire through their shields and inflict significant damage to the Enterprise. Perhaps cripple one of the nacelles, maybe a near direct hit to the secondary hull etc. Worf states that the Vorcha is a mark 1 original Vorcha not upgraded to fix the same issue as in the actual movie in that you can trigger the cloaking device.

But instead of one torpedo, the Enterprise fires all weapons phasers and several torpedoes when the Vorcha class ship cloaks.

As Graham said, couldn't agree more. This would make the fight a lot more even and plausible for the Enterprise to take heavy damage.

[Coalition]

Or just have the sisters read off the frequency and say "Pass it on to the Captains and tell them 'happy hunting'". Two Vorchas de-cloak and open fire

Basically remind people that Klingons can cloak, and just because you can only see one ship, doesn't mean there is only one ship

[McAvoy]

Or just have the sisters read off the frequency and say "Pass it on to the Captains and tell them 'happy hunting'". Two Vorchas de-cloak and open fire

Basically remind people that Klingons can cloak, and just because you can only see one ship, doesn't mean there is only one ship

I think that might be too many ships for the Enterprise to deal with without shields. Or even with shields.

[AlexMcpherson79]

"doesn't mean there is only one ship"
The problem with That plan, is that the Sisters are meant to be basically rogue with only a few people, hence why 1) it's an older bird of prey, and 2) the only ones...

"I think that might be too many ships for the Enterprise to deal with-"
Nope says the Dominion War...

... Did the show ever actually depict a full-on fight that wasn't against the borg? The only image that comes to mind is Ent Vs TWO Romulan D'Deridex Warbirds and was supported by those three humongous Klingon Birds of Prey ships (I think here labels them as D'Tai).

... and now I'm imagining if the show was remade to be basically the same (same scripts mostly, changes being just touching up errors/the like type) but with some episodes, ahem, erased, and some new ones in the same spirit that actually tackles their characters respectfully, like giving Doctor Crusher something to do that makes sense, actually utilize Troi or make her out to be not actually all that 'powerful' of an empath (so never ever 'counsellor, can you sense them even though you're right here and they're all the way over there at the limits of our ships weapons' 'yes captain, they are hiding something.' more like 'Am I crazy for suspecting them of something?' 'It's only paranoia if they're not actually out to get you, Captain'. .'but, I don't know if they are or not-')
And all 'Exterior shots' gets a full reworking to maintain intended-design scaling etc/etc, and give a proper treatment for battles. Like, what Star Trek would look like if the CG guys behind most/all of BSG's battlescenes were right there doing battle scenes.

[McAvoy]

"doesn't mean there is only one ship"
The problem with That plan, is that the Sisters are meant to be basically rogue with only a few people, hence why 1) it's an older bird of prey, and 2) the only ones...

"I think that might be too many ships for the Enterprise to deal with-"
Nope says the Dominion War...

... Did the show ever actually depict a full-on fight that wasn't against the borg? The only image that comes to mind is Ent Vs TWO Romulan D'Deridex Warbirds and was supported by those three humongous Klingon Birds of Prey ships (I think here labels them as D'Tai).

... and now I'm imagining if the show was remade to be basically the same (same scripts mostly, changes being just touching up errors/the like type) but with some episodes, ahem, erased, and some new ones in the same spirit that actually tackles their characters respectfully, like giving Doctor Crusher something to do that makes sense, actually utilize Troi or make her out to be not actually all that 'powerful' of an empath (so never ever 'counsellor, can you sense them even though you're right here and they're all the way over there at the limits of our ships weapons' 'yes captain, they are hiding something.' more like 'Am I crazy for suspecting them of something?' 'It's only paranoia if they're not actually out to get you, Captain'. .'but, I don't know if they are or not-')
And all 'Exterior shots' gets a full reworking to maintain intended-design scaling etc/etc, and give a proper treatment for battles. Like, what Star Trek would look like if the CG guys behind most/all of BSG's battlescenes were right there doing battle scenes.

Three ships versus the Enterprise. One BoP and two Vorchas. A Vorcha was always presumed to be the near equal to a Galaxy class ship.

That and in the Dominion War we never really saw a Galaxy by herself take on more than one ship at a time. There was always other support ships near by.

Especially if the E-D doesn't have shields.

[bladela]

An unshielded Galaxy vs 2 Vorchas would be cut to pieces very quickly, in my opinion.

[McAvoy]

An unshielded Galaxy vs 2 Vorchas would be cut to pieces very quickly, in my opinion.

I think even a shielded one would have alot of issues.

[Atekimogus]

While I agree that this battle is one of the most shamefull things in Star Trek ever........the biggest problem is the huge inconsistency when it comes to Star Trek battles.

And maybe this battle is getting too much critique if you consider a couple of things. Unfortunately, Star Trek never was consistent when it comes to battles...sometimes, when the script calls for it, an unshielded ship is completely defenseless and a single torpedo-hit would be enough to destroy it. (Considering the supposed explosive power of a photon torpedo, it is actualy not an unreasonable assumption that without some exotic defense mechanism, like shields and force fields, a single photon torpedo is enough to pretty much destroy ANY starship/starbase in Star Trek).
Sometimes, when the script calls for it, the shields are down and the ship still can take a beating of multiple hits without problem.

And while the BoP might be old, the torpedoes and disrupters actually might be top notch technology. Considering this the E-D is actually able to take an suprising amount of punishment. The thing that doesn't make sense - however - is that the BoP is able to take a hit without a problem when by all means, a single salvo from the E-D should have reduced it to scrap. However, maybe they also found out the phaser frequency and where able to negate phaser/photon strikes somehow? Which would explain why it only worked when their own shields where down?

Still....the incompetence going on in this scene is staggering and I never understood why the E-D needs to go in the first place...I thought it looked absolutely marvelous on the big screen as well.