Which is part of the issue here.Reliant121 wrote:Sadly, a lot of my generation have never heard of either.
Ship of the Week 2 : Acclamator Class
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Re: Ship of the Week 2 : Acclamator Class
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Re: Ship of the Week 2 : Acclamator Class
One pro and one con I've just noticed:
This is a valid point. I don't know if it was ever mentioned explicitly in the EU, but one could very easily envision Palps completely suppressing all knowledge of the Jedi after the Purge... you know, like the Jedi did with the Sith.
Deepcrush wrote:Maybe, but in a Galactic wide conflict when there were thousands of Jedi, thousands of other generals and admirals, and with the Emperor taking the credit for the victory and largely blanking out the Jedi. Its rather easy to consider that Luke never came across Kenobi.
This is a valid point. I don't know if it was ever mentioned explicitly in the EU, but one could very easily envision Palps completely suppressing all knowledge of the Jedi after the Purge... you know, like the Jedi did with the Sith.
This one, not so much. "Affiliate" means "affiliated," not "passingly familiar."Deepcrush wrote:Wrong, Independent Affiliate doesn't indicate anything other then they were apart from the Empire, didn't challenge the Empire, and the Empire left them alone. If it were a client state, it would have said client state.
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I got the high gloss luster
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I'll massacre your ass as fast
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Re: Ship of the Week 2 : Acclamator Class
I didn't say passingly familiar.Mikey wrote:This one, not so much. "Affiliate" means "affiliated," not "passingly familiar."
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Re: Ship of the Week 2 : Acclamator Class
Speaking as a member of the age-group that Luke would be in ANH (19/20 right?), that's not exactly hard. I know plenty of people who would not recognize those names if they came up in casual conversation, or a news article somewhere.Captain Seafort wrote:Me neither. However, there's a difference between being an expert on galactic history and recognising the name of of one of the most famous commanders of the Clone Wars. It's the equivalent of never having heard of Rommel or Montgomery.Again the question is why would he. Some EU stuff says Luke like playing on the internet. I doubt that makes him an expert on Galactic history.
As Mikey said, it wouldn't be beyond Palpatine to erase all references to the victorious Jedi in his New Order.
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Re: Ship of the Week 2 : Acclamator Class
Read what I wrote - I'm talking about the pre-Endor Empire, when the Rebellion was no more than a minor nuisance. Post-Endor the whole thing fragmented.Deepcrush wrote:You mean other then blowing up two Death Stars, score after score of planetary raids, built a fleet right under the nose of the Empire... Sounds pretty damn successful.
Oh, like the end of the Rebellion? What if there were hundreds or thousands of systems in revolt? You know, like at the end of the Empire when it fell to the Rebellion? The end of RotJ, where systems across the Empire have risen up. Like that kind of evidence... the Film itself right?
True, there were thousands of senior commanders, and some of them were certainly glossed over, but Kenobi and Skywalker were far more than just another pair of Generals. They were legends in their own lifetime, household names across the Republic. Sweeping those two under the rug would have been impossible within the couple of decades between the Clone Wars and the OT.Maybe, but in a Galactic wide conflict when there were thousands of Jedi, thousands of other generals and admirals, and with the Emperor taking the credit for the victory and largely blanking out the Jedi. Its rather easy to consider that Luke never came across Kenobi.
No. However, the key bit is the fact that there was no resistance whatsoever, and the stormies presence was treated by the locals as that of a police force, not as invaders.No, being able to land troops on foreign lands doesn't mean you control those lands. The US lands troops all the time in other countries, the British Empire did so before as well. Neither controlled every place they landed.
Bullshit. As Mikey pointed out, the use of the term "affiliate" means they were affiliated to the Empire, not completely independent of it.Wrong, Independent Affiliate doesn't indicate anything other then they were apart from the Empire, didn't challenge the Empire, and the Empire left them alone. If it were a client state, it would have said client state.
The Essential Atlas.Again, you're claiming they paid taxes, that the Hutts weren't separate of the Empire, evidence?
Mining Guild. Fair enough regarding the point of the independence of those operations, although that reads more like a case of the Empire lacking the legal right to nationalise Mining Guild instillations rather than the MG controlling any meaningful territory. Lando's exact comment was that "since we're a small operation we don't fall under the jurisdiction of the Empire". This suggests that above a certain size, such instillations do fall under Imperial jurisdiction.Yes, Lando informs Han and Leia that Bespin isn't apart of the Empire. That they run a free operation in a free system. Leia instantly asks if he's a part of the Merchants' Guild.
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Re: Ship of the Week 2 : Acclamator Class
You're not the age group Luke was part of. Your parents or grandparents would have been the best part of half a century ago.Sonic Glitch wrote:Speaking as a member of the age-group that Luke would be in ANH (19/20 right?), that's not exactly hard. I know plenty of people who would not recognize those names if they came up in casual conversation, or a news article somewhere.
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Re: Ship of the Week 2 : Acclamator Class
To be fair, there was some 19 years between the formation of the Empire and the Battle of Yavin. I certainly don't know of any major generals or figureheads of the Gulf War for example, and most of the people my age don't even know that it happened.
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Re: Ship of the Week 2 : Acclamator Class
The Gulf War didn't last three years and trash half the planet.Reliant121 wrote:To be fair, there was some 19 years between the formation of the Empire and the Battle of Yavin. I certainly don't know of any major generals or figureheads of the Gulf War for example, and most of the people my age don't even know that it happened.
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Re: Ship of the Week 2 : Acclamator Class
So we should ignore their successes only because it doesn't support your opinion of the unbeatable Empire. For some reason, I just feel the need to laugh at this.Captain Seafort wrote:Read what I wrote - I'm talking about the pre-Endor Empire, when the Rebellion was no more than a minor nuisance. Post-Endor the whole thing fragmented.
Household names? Legends in their own life times? Weren't they largely able to move about undetected in their own life times... Seems thats not to household of a person if they can walk through their own capital world and people don't know them. I would love to see some evidence that says they were what you claim.Captain Seafort wrote:True, there were thousands of senior commanders, and some of them were certainly glossed over, but Kenobi and Skywalker were far more than just another pair of Generals. They were legends in their own lifetime, household names across the Republic. Sweeping those two under the rug would have been impossible within the couple of decades between the Clone Wars and the OT.
Considering the outcome on that world, saying their was no resistance is kind of silly. Since by all views that I've seen that planet was owned by the Hutts and the Empire and Hutts were happy to leave each other alone since it benefited them to keep the other around.Captain Seafort wrote:No. However, the key bit is the fact that there was no resistance whatsoever, and the stormies presence was treated by the locals as that of a police force, not as invaders.
I'm affiliated with the University of Maryland... yet I'm rather independent of them so long as I'm not pissing on their lawn. Much the same with the Hapes and the Empire.Captain Seafort wrote:Bullshit. As Mikey pointed out, the use of the term "affiliate" means they were affiliated to the Empire, not completely independent of it.
Naming the title of a book that uses Wookiee as part of its source guild is first off useless as it doesn't prove anything to your point and second off is about as trustworthy as you are considering the number of mistakes in the book.Captain Seafort wrote:The Essential Atlas.
So how about posting some real evidence such as a canon statement of tax collection by the Empire from the Hutts.
So then they are independent of the Empire as I stated. Shortly after the statement by Lando about not being a part of the Empire, Han asks him if the Empire will ever find out about them. Meaning that the Empire likely didn't know about the place until they followed Han and Leia there.Captain Seafort wrote:Mining Guild. Fair enough regarding the point of the independence of those operations, although that reads more like a case of the Empire lacking the legal right to nationalise Mining Guild instillations rather than the MG controlling any meaningful territory. Lando's exact comment was that "since we're a small operation we don't fall under the jurisdiction of the Empire". This suggests that above a certain size, such instillations do fall under Imperial jurisdiction.
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Re: Ship of the Week 2 : Acclamator Class
I'm saying we should treat their successes for what they were - minor insect bites.Deepcrush wrote:So we should ignore their successes
The RotS novelization.Household names? Legends in their own life times? Weren't they largely able to move about undetected in their own life times... Seems thats not to household of a person if they can walk through their own capital world and people don't know them. I would love to see some evidence that says they were what you claim.
The outcome was that the planet was under the firm control of the Empire. One smuggler taking a few potshots at a stormie and managing to dodge the blockade does not constitute resistance.Considering the outcome on that world, saying their was no resistance is kind of silly.
As of TPM, sure. ANH demonstrates that by that time the situation had changed.Since by all views that I've seen that planet was owned by the Hutts
You're not a political entity controlling territory.I'm affiliated with the University of Maryland... yet I'm rather independent of them so long as I'm not pissing on their lawn. Much the same with the Hapes and the Empire.
You (entirely reasonably) wanted my source, I gave you it.Naming the title of a book that uses Wookiee as part of its source guild is first off useless as it doesn't prove anything to your point and second off is about as trustworthy as you are considering the number of mistakes in the book.
I don't have the exact quote, merely that the fact is mentioned in the EA.So how about posting some real evidence such as a canon statement of tax collection by the Empire from the Hutts.
It's not part of the Empire in the same way some gold panner in the Sierra Nevadas isn't "part of" the US.So then they are independent of the Empire as I stated. Shortly after the statement by Lando about not being a part of the Empire, Han asks him if the Empire will ever find out about them. Meaning that the Empire likely didn't know about the place until they followed Han and Leia there.
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.
Re: Ship of the Week 2 : Acclamator Class
Just looked in the local phone book, and there are 5 Montgomerys. No Rommels though.
Also 1 Hussein.
BTW, in this context, who the heck are Montgomery and Rommel?
Also 1 Hussein.
BTW, in this context, who the heck are Montgomery and Rommel?
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Re: Ship of the Week 2 : Acclamator Class
stitch626 wrote:Just looked in the local phone book, and there are 5 Montgomerys. No Rommels though.
Also 1 Hussein.
BTW, in this context, who the heck are Montgomery and Rommel?
Really? *sigh* Kids these days...
Erwin Rommel
*ED: Probably the most skilled, and decent, German officer of WWII, who was often disregarded by Hitler because he wasn't a Nazi. Good thing for us, because he might just have won the war for Germany if he'd been listened to.*
Bernard Montgomery, the commander who won Northern Africa for the Allies.
I can't stand nothing dull
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
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Re: Ship of the Week 2 : Acclamator Class
Bernard Montgomery, because he might just have lost the war for the Allies if we'd been listened to him.
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Re: Ship of the Week 2 : Acclamator Class
Trying to advance a tank army up a two lane, oftentimes elevated, highway? Yeah... Interesting idea, but not really practical.Tyyr wrote:Bernard Montgomery, because he might just have lost the war for the Allies if we'd been listened to him.
"All this has happened before --"
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"But it doesn't have to happen again. Not if we make up our minds to change. Take a different path. Right here, right now."
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Re: Ship of the Week 2 : Acclamator Class
Those insect bites joined together to bring down a galactic Empire.Captain Seafort wrote:I'm saying we should treat their successes for what they were - minor insect bites.
So, if you're telling the truth then they may have been house hold names twenty years ago before the Empire took power and began editing records. That is rather different from being a household name twenty years later on a desert world on a so far out that even the Empire nor its Hutt owners really bothered with any kind of local enforcement.Captain Seafort wrote:The RotS novelization.
No, the outcome is that one of the planet's cities had an Imperial detachment on it. That is not "firm" control.Captain Seafort wrote:The outcome was that the planet was under the firm control of the Empire. One smuggler taking a few potshots at a stormie and managing to dodge the blockade does not constitute resistance.
Sure, I'll believe this when you provide a film statement declaring such. Otherwise, a few Stormtroopers doesn't qualify as a change to planet ownership.Captain Seafort wrote:As of TPM, sure. ANH demonstrates that by that time the situation had changed.
I am in fact a home owner with a declared loyalty to a political entity.Captain Seafort wrote:You're not a political entity controlling territory.
Then if a book cover and pointing finger is all you have, then your point is invalid. While you may suspect from your view a partly usable source, it does not however provide fact.Captain Seafort wrote:You (entirely reasonably) wanted my source, I gave you it.
Then this, as stated above, would be what you suspect and not what in fact "is".Captain Seafort wrote:I don't have the exact quote, merely that the fact is mentioned in the EA.
He would in fact be a part of the US as in order to have rights to access natural resources he would have to be a Citizen.Captain Seafort wrote:It's not part of the Empire in the same way some gold panner in the Sierra Nevadas isn't "part of" the US.
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