Inferno's Light question

[SolkaTruesilver]

In the same line of discussion regarding The Die is Cast question, I want to approach the this line of potential event:

In Inferno's Light, everything is Doom and Gloom. The Cardassians just joined the Dominion. They are going to attack with massive force... Comes together the biggest task force ever to see the dawn in this Quadrant: the whole Klingon War Effort, and a massive Federation reinforcement fleet.

Enter the Romulans with a similar fleet, to try and save the Day.

But everything was a trap! A Founder was on a suicide mission to detonate Bajor's sun. The Defiant have been sent on an emergency intercept mission...

And failed. The resulting supernova wiped out Bajor. DS9. The combined Klingon, Romulan and Federation fleet. And the Dominion decides to...

Okay. You write. Your turn, what do you think will happen next? Do you think the Allies would have standed a chance if the Niners hadn't been so lucky?

[Deepcrush]

The loss of sisko would have been the most important loss there. The fleets present were rather small by the scale of the Dominion War.

[Reliant121]

I think Deep's right about the fleets. The fleet mustered to retake DS9, the Chintoka Battle group etc all seemed a tad...small. The Federation should have a huge number of ships at its disposal.

However, not having DS9 or at least, not having Sisko as a rally point, or a general to rally behind, could severely weaken the coordination of the AQ alliance.

[Tsukiyumi]

Without Sisko, the Dominion reinforcements pour through the wormhole, and that's all, folks. 2,000+ additional ships would change the balance of the war irrevocably.

[Captain Seafort]

Dominion reinforcements pour through the wormhole

If the wormhole still exists. In "The Search", Sisko and the others expected a volley of runabout-scale torpedoes to be enough to collapse the wormhole. Anything powerful enough to destroy the station, which has been shown to withstand numerous volleys of capship torpedoes without even loosing shields, should therefore be enough to collapse it. The Dominion would therefore have triggered the war in a far weaker condition than the one they were in when Sisko eventually closed the wormhole in "Call to Arms" - they had sent at least five additional convoys through since "Inferno's Light". They would also have been up against the Triple Alliance from the start, rather than having had the opportunity to butter up or intimidate a decent chunk of the quadrant, including the Romulans.

[Tsukiyumi]

Lot of good points there that I agree with; let me just go with this one:

In "The Search", Sisko and the others expected a volley of runabout-scale torpedoes to be enough to collapse the wormhole.

Just because they expected it to work doesn't mean it would. The Prophets might have just re-opened it.

[Captain Seafort]

Just because they expected it to work doesn't mean it would.

Dax was involved, and as she's probably the UFP's leading expert on the wormhole I think we can take her expectations as the likely outcome unless there's evidence to the contrary. It's been demonstrated repeatedly that the inhabitants are not immune from external intervention.

[kostmayer]

Didn't the Founder impersonating Bashir sabotage the Federations attempt to seal the Wormhole entrance, which then instead strengthened to such a degree that sealing it with weapons was no longer an option?

In anycase, Kira had to warp to intercept the Founder in time. If the sun had gone kaboom, surely the Fleets would have had time to emergency warp away.

[Captain Seafort]

Didn't the Founder impersonating Bashir sabotage the Federations attempt to seal the Wormhole entrance, which then instead strengthened to such a degree that sealing it with weapons was no longer an option?

Correct. However, we're not discussing weapons - we're discussing an impact that was expected to destroy DS9, despite it demonstrably being capable of surviving full fleet attacks.

In anycase, Kira had to warp to intercept the Founder in time. If the sun had gone kaboom, surely the Fleets would have had time to emergency warp away.

True, but DS9 can't, and given that it is capable of holding off fleets and cannot be drawn off by feints elsewhere it was probably the chief target of the attack.

[kostmayer]

Correct. However, we're not discussing weapons - we're discussing an impact that was expected to destroy DS9, despite it demonstrably being capable of surviving full fleet attacks.

Fair point, although the entrance was still strengthened since they were planning on destroying it with conventional weapons, theres no way of knowing how much. I doubt the Dominion would risk destroying the entrance to the Wormhole just to take out one fleet.

True, but DS9 can't, and given that it is capable of holding off fleets and cannot be drawn off by feints elsewhere it was probably the chief target of the attack.

Seems like an awfully elaborate plan just to take out DS9, especially at the cost of a Founders life. A changeling in place on the station impersonating the Doctor could have easily sabotaged it.

[Deepcrush]

The Founders have shown over the course of the series they were often willing to die for the mission. Giving up one Founder's life to protect the Dominion is the same and giving up one soldier's life to save a nation.

[SolkaTruesilver]

The Founders have shown over the course of the series they were often willing to die for the mission. Giving up one Founder's life to protect the Dominion is the same and giving up one soldier's life to save a nation.

If you think about it on the Founder's point of view, having one of their own sacrifice itself is probably the equivalent of a citizen giving up his life for the better good - the ultimate act of selfessness.

But if Jem'Hadar or Vorta give up their life, it's to be expected. After all, Jem'Hadar are nothing more than materials to them. Only as valuable, morality-wise, as the ship they command.

Kind of depressing, when I think about it.

Which makes me think why the Dominion hadn't been more clever in their deception tentative during The Search part II...

So, you all think that the only effect the nova would have had are:

- Destruction of DS9
- Destruction of Bajor


But the fleets manage to run away. Without DS9, and without any capacity to mine the wormhole, methink the Dominion would have probably mass-attacked immediately.

And I dont think the fleet ammassed at DS9 at the time was that small. After all, Gowron said that he planned to retake all of his ship out of Cardassian space to make a Last Stand. Sisko proposed to make that Last Stand at DS9, so it's logical to assume that the entire Klingon War Effort had reached DS9.

Plus all the ships the Fed could afford to send. plus the Romulans. How many do you think it would have been?

[Deepcrush]

In "Way of the Warrior" its estimated that about a third of the Klingon Fleet was present which means its more then likely that only a small portion was located within a day's travel of DS9. Your logic is badly flawed.

[SolkaTruesilver]

In "Way of the Warrior" its estimated that about a third of the Klingon Fleet was present which means its more then likely that only a small portion was located within a day's travel of DS9. Your logic is badly flawed.

....?

What?

I think yours just blew up. Can you please explain to me what you meant, or how this is related to the topic at hand? WotW's klingon fleet disposition are hardly relevant for the moment.

[Deepcrush]

The Klingons are at risk of conflict with the Romulans, in a border war with the UFP, in a rather open war with the Cardassians. Why would their ENTIRE FLEET be at DS9?