Just how powerful IS voyager?

MetalHead · Post by **MetalHead** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:17 pm

At the end of the series.

I was watching the episode 'Drone' (great episode if you've not seen it, some very good acting)

and there's a part where the 29th Century drone 'enhances' voyager's phasers for several seconds. That struck me along with reading graham's entry on the tactical cube - 'After years of installing alien technologies, who knows how strong voyager was?'

There was also the bit after voyager was 'enhanced' by the borg where Belanna says 'the eps system (or something, forgive me) works better.' janeway replies 'keep them'. Surely that wasn't the ONLY thing?

Quite frankly, I would think that Voyager started off as a decent starfleet ship, and ended up as a MONSTER. Multiple Borg enhancements, to critical systems such as power distribution, power generation (could be wrong on that), tactical systems, and i think propulsion.

So on that note...just how powerful do you believe voyager would be?

At the end of it all, I'll go out on a limb and say Voyager could AT LEAST stand up to a Galaxy Class vessel. I frankly think it would be massively more powerful though. Opinions?

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:24 pm

In practice, Voyager should be a lot less capable than your average Intrepid-class ship, precisely because of all the various alien add-ons. The ship was designed to operate with Starfleet equipment, therefore the various DQ stuff, while it kept the ship going, would not be the optimum. A bit like a car held together with bungees and gaffer tape - it might keep going for a few more miles but it won't be as good as a proper garage overhaul.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:30 pm

In addition Voyager would have been limited by the size and power output of her reactor. That means she can only power so much stuff before reaching the limits of her reactors endurance. That means there's no reason why we should assume that phasers can be infinetly scaled up in power. As well the phasers would only be designed to channel so much power, and I don't recall them crawling about the hull replacing emitters or even having the resources to replace all the emitters with new ones.

Monroe · Post by **Monroe** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:38 pm

There's no rule that states that the stronger the phasers the more power they use. Sure that is common sense but Trek breaks that sometimes.

Granitehewer · Post by **Granitehewer** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:45 pm

Voyager is a b*itch of a ship, in the mongrel sense, instead of it being a uber-vessel, i'd expect its differing modifications to conflict.....or at least if noises did exist in space,then voyager should splutter alot and make little 'pooting' noises....

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:45 pm

Monroe wrote:There's no rule that states that the stronger the phasers the more power they use. Sure that is common sense but Trek breaks that sometimes.

Well, you could strengthen them slightly by improving their efficiency, or narrowing the beam to increase its intensity, but that would only produce small improvements. There's only so much you can do to modify existing kit.

And what's this about Trek ignoring common sense sometimes?

MetalHead · Post by **MetalHead** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:48 pm

yes yes I know, alien may not be optimal, but you can't assume everything they added on would be a DOWNGRADE. Afterall, if it wasn't really going to be of much use, then why would they bother adding it on in the first place? And like I quoted from many episodes, the enhancments were direct.

Also, whats to say that they didn't find a way to upgrade the primary reactor in the first place anyway? Sure things are limited by the maximum power output, but I'm sure that a scientist captain and an engineer would realize that. I'd reckon that at some point they had to enhance the reactor.

Think of Voyager's battle with the tactical cube. As I recall there weren't any tractor beams or slow - 'lets take our time and assimilate these fools' tactic from the Borg, they just went straight for particle weapons. I'd say the enhancements in general upgraded the ships cababilities, and while I most definitly agree with the idea about how it was meant to work with starfleet technology and some things would only just keep it going, it seemed to me that in most episodes voyager was running just fine with what she had installed.

Granitehewer · Post by **Granitehewer** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:56 pm

damn it,its twice the tactical cube vs voyager has been mentioned, i must have seen every episode but that

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:56 pm

Monroe wrote:There's no rule that states that the stronger the phasers the more power they use. Sure that is common sense but Trek breaks that sometimes.

Unless there's an explanation that I've never heard that allows phasers to be more powerful without drawing extra power, I'm going with the simpler answer.

MetalHead wrote: Also, whats to say that they didn't find a way to upgrade the primary reactor in the first place anyway? Sure things are limited by the maximum power output, but I'm sure that a scientist captain and an engineer would realize that. I'd reckon that at some point they had to enhance the reactor.

Did they ever upgrade the reactor or are we just assuming they did?

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:02 pm

MetalHead wrote:yes yes I know, alien may not be optimal, but you can't assume everything they added on would be a DOWNGRADE. Afterall, if it wasn't really going to be of much use, then why would they bother adding it on in the first place? And like I quoted from many episodes, the enhancments were direct.

By definition, if a given system is no longer optimal due to replacing a Starfleet device with its DQ equivalent it is a downgrade. The pretty obvious reason for doing so is the choice between a poor quality system or none at all - things wear out, especially given the pounding Voyager routinely suffered during it's journey.

Also, whats to say that they didn't find a way to upgrade the primary reactor in the first place anyway? Sure things are limited by the maximum power output, but I'm sure that a scientist captain and an engineer would realize that. I'd reckon that at some point they had to enhance the reactor.

It isn't just a matter of slapping in a new engine and off you go. The entire ship is designed around that reactor. Even assuming the alien equipment would physically fit, there's the problems of hooking it up to the EPS system, assuming that the greater power output wouldn't continuously trip the circuit breakers (if the ship is well designed) or blowing the ship up (if it's a typical Starfleet design), getting the computer software to recognise the new equipment, making sure that the reactor shielding is sufficient to protect the crew and ship from any emissions, and so on. This is why the apparently simple task of replacing the ship's power source, tens of thousands of light years from the nearest spacedock designed to service Federation technology, would likely be far more trouble than it would be worth, even in the unlikely event that it were possible..

MetalHead · Post by **MetalHead** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:16 pm

Like I said, I take your point, but I DID mention a few times where on screen they said X system works better. Or there were episodes where they were enhancing certian systems - ie the internal sensors. Borg upgrades to tactical and power systems have got to count for something.

Granitehewer · Post by **Granitehewer** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:30 pm

Modifications could be beneficial, as long as voyager was designed to accomodate them, but of course the greater the quantity, from the greater the diversity of sources, could mean the greater the opportunity for tragedy

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:34 pm

Granitehewer wrote:Modifications could be beneficial, as long as voyager was designed to accomodate them, but of course the greater the quantity, from the greater the diversity of sources, could mean the greater the opportunity for tragedy

How could it be designed to accomodate them? It's as if a T-72 was designed to "accomodate" a Challenger 2 engine. The further a vehicle deviates from it original specifications the less efficient it will be.

MetalHead · Post by **MetalHead** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:14 pm

Captain Seafort wrote:
Granitehewer wrote:Modifications could be beneficial, as long as voyager was designed to accomodate them, but of course the greater the quantity, from the greater the diversity of sources, could mean the greater the opportunity for tragedy
How could it be designed to accomodate them? It's as if a T-72 was designed to "accomodate" a Challenger 2 engine. The further a vehicle deviates from it original specifications the less efficient it will be.

With all due respect, Starships are not quite just simple 'vehicles'

With cars, I can understand, with Starships, less so. Remember, over time, modifications and improvements can be made to increase the effiency of any installed components, be they an upgrade or a downgrade.

DSG2k · Post by **DSG2k** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 4:49 am

Why would modifications from factory spec invariably reduce efficiency? I realize that a lot of people modify their cars to produce more speed or acceleration, which is generally going to be the opposite of fuel efficiency, but that's not always the case.

Replacing a clunky metal intake manifold with a plastic one reduces weight and improves efficiency . . . replacing old steel hubs with aluminum ones reduces weight and improves efficiency . . . there are even things one can do to the computer software that can either increase power or increase fuel efficiency (the most popular is the former, though in the era of the hybrid this is changing).

(Here is something similar, though that's just an exploit of a disabled feature.)

I'd say the best example of the sort of upgrades we're talking about would be the NX-01 from "EÂ²"[ENT3].