Asgard-refitted Tau'ri ships: Can they beat the Borg?

[Duskofdead]

SPOILER WARNINGS IF YOU HAVE NOT WATCHED STARGATE SG-1 SEASON 10'S FINALE.










I was wondering (I know, comparing Sci Fi series often starts forum wars such as the infamous Trek vs. Star Wars debate) what people thought about the Tau'ri (Earth) ships after the Stargate SG-1 season 10 finale, Unending, and if they would be effective against Borg ships.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEsVLcQ3Rz8
Video of the newly Asgard-refitted Oddyssey taking out an Ori Mothership.

I had two initial thoughts that I play around with from time to time.

Option #1: While equipped with the most advanced Asgard weaponry and shields, supported by Ancient zero point module energy supplies, the shields and weapons even on the strongest ships in the Stargate universe are "primitive" compared to Star Trek.

Note: For those of you not comprehensively familiar with Stargate, the Asgard are basically an ancient race (they are the "Roswell Grays") devoted to research and technology (to a fault) who are SO old that, literally, their genetic code wore out/became stagnant. As O'Neill would say, "that's really old." They were friends of the very old and now extinct race of humans who built the Stargate network.

Option #2: The offensive and defensive technology of Earth ships, after the gift from the Asgard, effectively puts them on par (if not somewhat superior) to what the Ancients developed just prior to ascending (essentially becoming a race of Q's) and thus is virtually the epitome of what can be developed within reasonable imagination. Additionally, since Ori Motherships are designed by the Ori, who basically are "evil Q" who have near total knowledge (if not total knowledge) of all the scientific workings and limitations of physics and the universe, the Oddyssey's ability to destroy them in relative short order makes the Oddyssey one of the most powerful possible ships. The only thing which could make it more powerful would be an unlimited supply of ZPM's which could be used either concurrently or sequentially to maintain shield and weapon power indefinitely.

A third option is, regardless of how powerful their weapons are, the Borg would find a way to adapt.

What do you guys think?

[Blackstar the Chakat]

I'm worried this might go into the "My unverse vs. your universe" type argument, but without a doubt, Asguard tech rules all.

[Duskofdead]

I'm worried this might go into the "My unverse vs. your universe" type argument, but without a doubt, Asguard tech rules all.

Honestly I think the style of technologies are more or less incompatible. My personal opinion is that the Gate tech is significantly superior, but at the same time there's sort of a strange smaller gap between primitive and really advanced in Stargate. In Trek it's more like there's a slow, continual progression of technology and drastic leaps are often not possible a few exceptions aside.

[Sionnach Glic]

No "my sci-fi universe would beat up your sci-fi universe" threads. No matter how well intentioned or reasonable it might start, ultimately no good comes of this.

Sorry guys, but there's a ban on sci-fi 'versus' threads. We had one or two before that were locked, and I imagine this one going the same way when Graham or Ian log on.

[Duskofdead]

No "my sci-fi universe would beat up your sci-fi universe" threads. No matter how well intentioned or reasonable it might start, ultimately no good comes of this.

Sorry guys, but there's a ban on sci-fi 'versus' threads. We had one or two before that were locked, and I imagine this one going the same way when Graham or Ian log on.

Why should this become one sci fi vs. another? If you want just treat the question like "exactly how powerful are Asgard weapons." It's not going to turn into a sci fi vs. sci fi flame war unless someone can't keep an attitude problem in check.

Personally I love both series... so as long as people who love one and hate the other stay out, I see no reason why it should be a fight.

P.S. Seriously Rochey that was annoying. Coming into a thread JUST to make an I'm-telling-you-so about how a topic will get locked seems beneath your normal behavior.

[Sionnach Glic]

Why should this become one sci fi vs. another? If you want just treat the question like "exactly how powerful are Asgard weapons." It's not going to turn into a sci fi vs. sci fi flame war unless someone can't keep an attitude problem in check.

Personally I love both series... so as long as people who love one and hate the other stay out, I see no reason why it should be a fight.

It is already a VS thread as per the OP. The thread specificaly asks can the Asgard weapons nail Borg ships. That's pretty much the definition of a VS thread.

P.S. Seriously Rochey that was annoying. Coming into a thread JUST to make an I'm-telling-you-so about how a topic will get locked seems beneath your normal behavior.

I didn't come into the thread just to make an "I'm-telling-you-so" post. I came in to point out that this subject is banned, and quoted where in the rules it said so. I would have stated my opinion on the subject, but I see no point as the thread will be locked before anything can come of it.

But if you insist on an opinion, here it is: Borg get horrificaly curbstomped. SG1 ship weapons range in the gigatonnes, and that's just for Goa'ould weapons. Asgard weapons are many times more powerful than that. Shields are on a par with those weapons strengths, and the Asgard can travel from one galaxy to another fairly quickly.

[Duskofdead]

Personally I love both series... so as long as people who love one and hate the other stay out, I see no reason why it should be a fight.

It is already a VS thread as per the OP. The thread specificaly asks can the Asgard weapons nail Borg ships. That's pretty much the definition of a VS thread.[/quote]

Understood I suppose, I hadn't interpreted the rule in that way but I am relatively new here. I thought of vs. threads as more like Star Trek vs. Star Wars or Star Trek vs. Stargate, whereas I considered this more of just a ship comparison... are the big evil boogeymen of one universe as powerful as the big evil boogeymen of another. I suppose it's a thin line and I was not aware any form of comparison whatsoever was banned.

If this thread is banned, I suppose I can understand seeing as how this is against a rule but given the huge latitude shown around the board I would find it strange (excessively so, actually) if this is the one issue that Graham or Ian bring down a flaming hammer about when flame wars or holocaust discussions don't seem to grab moderation attention until they get extraordinarily bad.

But if you insist on an opinion, here it is: Borg get horrificaly curbstomped. SG1 ship weapons range in the gigatonnes, and that's just for Goa'ould weapons. Asgard weapons are many times more powerful than that. Shields are on a par with those weapons strengths, and the Asgard can travel from one galaxy to another fairly quickly.

That was all I was looking for... people's impressions on the magnitude of the technology seen in Stargate. Stargate is frequently much less explicit than Trek in terms of giving numbers or measurements and even once these are given, the visual effects tend to laughably not match up (i.e. when Hat'ak or Al'kesh bomb planets and it looks like someone threw a firecracker).

[Sionnach Glic]

Understood I suppose, I hadn't interpreted the rule in that way but I am relatively new here. I thought of vs. threads as more like Star Trek vs. Star Wars or Star Trek vs. Stargate, whereas I considered this more of just a ship comparison... are the big evil boogeymen of one universe as powerful as the big evil boogeymen of another. I suppose it's a thin line and I was not aware any form of comparison whatsoever was banned.

Thing is, "can Universe A beat up Universe B" and "can this ship take this other ship on" are virtualy identical. What you are doing in a VS debate is comparing the two sides together. Which had better weapons, which has faster engines, which has more territory, etc. In a thread like this, all that's happening is a VS debate on a smaller scale, more of "can ship X compare with ship Y" scenario. From a glance, they appear different, but it's just one part of a very large debate.

If this thread is banned, I suppose I can understand seeing as how this is against a rule but given the huge latitude shown around the board I would find it strange (excessively so, actually) if this is the one issue that Graham or Ian bring down a flaming hammer about when flame wars or holocaust discussions don't seem to grab moderation attention until they get extraordinarily bad.

*shrug*
We've had one or two VS threads before, both of which were locked as soon as the admins logged on. I'm just making a prediction based on precedent. VS threads on any site have a nasty tendancy of flaring up rapidly and seemingly randomly. While I'm not a big supporter of the VS ban, I can see where Graham's coming from with it.

[Duskofdead]

*shrug*
We've had one or two VS threads before, both of which were locked as soon as the admins logged on. I'm just making a prediction based on precedent. VS threads on any site have a nasty tendancy of flaring up rapidly and seemingly randomly. While I'm not a big supporter of the VS ban, I can see where Graham's coming from with it.

*Shrug* Their forum I guess. On an alphabetical list of things to ban I think this would be a distant B-list but I'll drop it and await the lock.

[Teaos]

Since its not our tech to start with and we are just using it I doubt we could adapt it very well. Just slap it on to our ships.

The scond the Borg adapt to it which may take some time they will assimilate it and then its all over.

[Sionnach Glic]

How do we know they can assimilate this stuff at all? It's orders of magnitude above what they're used to dealing with, and doesn't have any of the frequencies that the Borg require to adapt to.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

The scond the Borg adapt to it which may take some time they will assimilate it and then its all over.

Unless you go on the offensive and wipe them out first. Given the speed and firepower of the upgraded 304s, once the Phoenix is operational the four 304s could lead a massive offense against the Borg. Besides, they've beaten both types of Replicators, including the ones built by the ancients and if they can defeat those guys they surely can defeat the more primitive Borg

[Duskofdead]

How do we know they can assimilate this stuff at all? It's orders of magnitude above what they're used to dealing with, and doesn't have any of the frequencies that the Borg require to adapt to.

I suppose they could provide an optimal shield defense against whatever weapon energy is used, but yes, that hasn't worked for anyone else (even Replicators) in Stargate against the new Asgard weapons, which simply seem to be so powerful that no known defense (even Ori shields) stand against them.

[Sionnach Glic]

And given that Ori shields are orders of magnitude above Borg ones.....say bye-bye Cube.

[Duskofdead]

And given that Ori shields are orders of magnitude above Borg ones.....say bye-bye Cube.

::is waving bye::