"Living Witness" Evil Voyager Appreciation Thread

Captain Picard's Hair · Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:08 pm

This was an excellent episode in many ways, but this thread is about appreciating the perverted fun of watching the evil voyager crew. It's an entertaining change from the normal ethics of Trek (even given the inconsistencies with Voyager we've discussed.) In real life it's all grotesque, and the perversion of Voyager is a bit over the top (to all but Deepcrush, that is

), but this plays nicely into the plot of the episode without turning the event into a freak show. We are able to enjoy seeing the evil Voyager crew do its thing without being repulsed by the episode as a whole.

All in all it quite nicely substitutes for the lack of mirror universe eps in Voyager.

Post by **Graham Kennedy** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:20 pm

God this episode was SO what a TNG-era Mirror universe episode should have been. I spent the first few minutes thinking that's what we were getting - the Mirror universe version of Voyager. So much better than the dreck version that DS9 served up.

The one single reason I will forever regret Enterprise's cancellation is that I suspect if it had lasted, we would have got a Mirror universe episode once a season or so. Their take on it was just fantastic fun. I only wish they had kept in Archers line to Mayweather!

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:22 pm

What line was that?

Post by **Graham Kennedy** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:25 pm

Oh, there's a scene where Archer gives the crew a big speech and he ends it with "Long live the Empire! Long live the Empire!" The crowd take it up, chanting over and over as he leaves.

According to the commentary, in the original script, as he walks out he stops and says to Mayweather "Shoot the first one that stops saluting."

They decided it was too over the top.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:56 pm

Aw, they should well have kept that line in.

It's funny when the evil mirror-universe characters are so much more interesting, entertaining, and all around cooler than the actual characters of the show.

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:06 pm

GrahamKennedy wrote:According to the commentary, in the original script, as he walks out he stops and says to Mayweather "Shoot the first one that stops saluting."

They decided it was too over the top.

How can it be over the top if they were directly copying tactics on an historical dictatorship? That scenario was common in the Soviet Union, albeit with the proviso that the actual order was unnecessary, it being standard operating proceedure.

Blackstar the Chakat · Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:03 pm

GrahamKennedy wrote: According to the commentary, in the original script, as he walks out he stops and says to Mayweather "Shoot the first one that stops saluting."

Wasn't the line, "shoot the first one that stops clapping."? And that was in the episode. Unless one word really makes that much of a difference.

RK_Striker_JK_5 · Post by **RK_Striker_JK_5** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:10 pm

Either one was still a great line.

Man, I loved that first bit. Voyager all decked out, with Seven as a Borg, Chakotay's wild tattoos...

Post by **Graham Kennedy** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:36 pm

ChakatBlackstar wrote:
GrahamKennedy wrote: According to the commentary, in the original script, as he walks out he stops and says to Mayweather "Shoot the first one that stops saluting."
Wasn't the line, "shoot the first one that stops clapping."? And that was in the episode. Unless one word really makes that much of a difference.

Well they weren't clapping, so I don't think so. I'm sure it was said as being something that was cut from the script, but I'd have to check to make sure.

Blackstar the Chakat · Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:45 pm

GrahamKennedy wrote:
ChakatBlackstar wrote:
GrahamKennedy wrote: According to the commentary, in the original script, as he walks out he stops and says to Mayweather "Shoot the first one that stops saluting."
Wasn't the line, "shoot the first one that stops clapping."? And that was in the episode. Unless one word really makes that much of a difference.
Well they weren't clapping, so I don't think so. I'm sure it was said as being something that was cut from the script, but I'd have to check to make sure.

Are you sure? The scene where he's making a speech in the shuttlebay? I remember him say that line, as he left after his speech. When all the people were clapping and cheering.

Post by **Graham Kennedy** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:50 pm

I'll check and let you know.

cbosdell · Post by **cbosdell** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 12:07 am

ChakatBlackstar wrote:
GrahamKennedy wrote: According to the commentary, in the original script, as he walks out he stops and says to Mayweather "Shoot the first one that stops saluting."
Wasn't the line, "shoot the first one that stops clapping."? And that was in the episode. Unless one word really makes that much of a difference.

It was a deleted scene on the DVD.

Blackstar the Chakat · Fri Feb 29, 2008 12:14 am

cbosdell wrote:
ChakatBlackstar wrote:
GrahamKennedy wrote: According to the commentary, in the original script, as he walks out he stops and says to Mayweather "Shoot the first one that stops saluting."
Wasn't the line, "shoot the first one that stops clapping."? And that was in the episode. Unless one word really makes that much of a difference.
It was a deleted scene on the DVD.

I'm telling you I saw it while watching reruns on the Sci-fi channel

Captain Picard's Hair · Fri Feb 29, 2008 2:21 am

Do we have a favorite bit from this ep? The ridiculously overgunned Voyager, the black gloves, Chakotay with half his face covered in tribal tattoo, evil Chakotay having the audacity to say he was a man of peace, the whole Chakotay/Kim interrogation scene itself, evil Doctor, the way the crew got along, a Borg tactical team at evil Janeway's disposal...

There's just so much good stuff in here.

Ivan_Only · Post by **Ivan_Only** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 3:32 pm

The "Evil" Doctor, his lines were awesome.

I was sad though, no goatee's