Episode 9 Spoilerrific review/discussion

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Re: Episode 9 Spoilerrific review/discussion

Post by RK_Striker_JK_5 »

Nutso wrote:
AlexMcpherson79 wrote:
RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:As for me? They should've just adapted the Thrawn Trilogy.
No, they shouldn't. They'd have botched that.

Says a lot when a review of a movie listing all the dumb things is half the runtime of the movie... And I wish she'd add a "dumb" counter to list how many times she says the word "dumb". because the film is dumb.

5.
But if they adapted The Thrawn Trilogy, or really any of the old EU, they would have have a blueprint to follow, a plot, a story, a villain, rather than this pathetic mishmash of ideas each director put in to their respective movies. I don't think the ideas themselves are bad but, trying to join them, or just outright dropping each other's ideas, made for a mishmash of a trilogy.
Or if they adapted the Thrawn trilogy then they'd have to adapt every single piece of the EU, or at least that's what some folks tell me. Because apparently unlike the MCU, Star Wars would have to adapt everything, even the shitty stuff. :roll:
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Re: Episode 9 Spoilerrific review/discussion

Post by Nutso »

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:
Nutso wrote: But if they adapted The Thrawn Trilogy, or really any of the old EU, they would have have a blueprint to follow, a plot, a story, a villain, rather than this pathetic mishmash of ideas each director put in to their respective movies. I don't think the ideas themselves are bad but, trying to join them, or just outright dropping each other's ideas, made for a mishmash of a trilogy.
Or if they adapted the Thrawn trilogy then they'd have to adapt every single piece of the EU, or at least that's what some folks tell me. Because apparently unlike the MCU, Star Wars would have to adapt everything, even the shitty stuff. :roll:
Remember the "Story Group Committee?" The Committee assembled to streamline and bring to order the new Expanded Universe? I remember them. I was excited about this. I joined reddit, I was going to follow the breaking news of what will be canon, and what will be removed. Take out the bad (Sun Crusher,) keep the good (Thrawn). I was going to post this on DITL. Will stuff I like remain? Do I like garbage? I really thought this was going to be like professional sports, where we get breaking news every week before the match.

Then this all-powerful Committee reveals: Everything not in the movies, or TV shows will be non-canonized. That's it?! That's what this Committee was formed to do? They probably got a six-figure salary to be on this committee, doing tedious work that they're passionate about no doubt, and that was the solution? A Disney Executive, and Disney Executive could have done that?! Just Thanos-snap the EU away. They Dick Jones'd it, killed the EU because it made a mistake. No committee was needed for that decision. No thinking, nor work was involved. But that's what supposedly creative people were paid to do? Just say *meh* to previous decades of lore? Something any bean counter, or lawyer, or someone who doesn't know what Star Wars is could do- kill the past.

By the way, sorry you had to experience such straw-man garbage arguments. I suspect those are people, and I use that noun loosely, who only care about being right, not correct.
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Re: Episode 9 Spoilerrific review/discussion

Post by Griffin »

Saw it. Enjoyed it. Still gonna think of the old EU stuff when I ponder post ROTJ. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: Episode 9 Spoilerrific review/discussion

Post by Graham Kennedy »

You want a review? You REALLY want a review? You asked for it... I present the EFAP review. EFAP stands for Every Frame A Pause. They discuss the movie... in detail. Massive, insane, absurd, excruciating detail.

The review is twelve hours long.



The same crew have since made a video talking about other people's reviews of the movie. It's also twelve hours long.
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Re: Episode 9 Spoilerrific review/discussion

Post by Nutso »

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Re: Episode 9 Spoilerrific review/discussion

Post by McAvoy »

Graham Kennedy wrote:You want a review? You REALLY want a review? You asked for it... I present the EFAP review. EFAP stands for Every Frame A Pause. They discuss the movie... in detail. Massive, insane, absurd, excruciating detail.

The review is twelve hours long.



The same crew have since made a video talking about other people's reviews of the movie. It's also twelve hours long.
Dude... I barely have time to watch a 1 hour review let alone a 12 hour one.

I did last year watch a 3 hour one on the Last Jedi but they did me the favor of breaking it up in one hour parts.
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Re: Episode 9 Spoilerrific review/discussion

Post by McAvoy »

Nutso wrote:
RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:
Nutso wrote: But if they adapted The Thrawn Trilogy, or really any of the old EU, they would have have a blueprint to follow, a plot, a story, a villain, rather than this pathetic mishmash of ideas each director put in to their respective movies. I don't think the ideas themselves are bad but, trying to join them, or just outright dropping each other's ideas, made for a mishmash of a trilogy.
Or if they adapted the Thrawn trilogy then they'd have to adapt every single piece of the EU, or at least that's what some folks tell me. Because apparently unlike the MCU, Star Wars would have to adapt everything, even the shitty stuff. :roll:
Remember the "Story Group Committee?" The Committee assembled to streamline and bring to order the new Expanded Universe? I remember them. I was excited about this. I joined reddit, I was going to follow the breaking news of what will be canon, and what will be removed. Take out the bad (Sun Crusher,) keep the good (Thrawn). I was going to post this on DITL. Will stuff I like remain? Do I like garbage? I really thought this was going to be like professional sports, where we get breaking news every week before the match.

Then this all-powerful Committee reveals: Everything not in the movies, or TV shows will be non-canonized. That's it?! That's what this Committee was formed to do? They probably got a six-figure salary to be on this committee, doing tedious work that they're passionate about no doubt, and that was the solution? A Disney Executive, and Disney Executive could have done that?! Just Thanos-snap the EU away. They Dick Jones'd it, killed the EU because it made a mistake. No committee was needed for that decision. No thinking, nor work was involved. But that's what supposedly creative people were paid to do? Just say *meh* to previous decades of lore? Something any bean counter, or lawyer, or someone who doesn't know what Star Wars is could do- kill the past.

By the way, sorry you had to experience such straw-man garbage arguments. I suspect those are people, and I use that noun loosely, who only care about being right, not correct.
I remember in some video someone broke down a committee that was formed prior to the Sequels. The whole thing was broken down and each person on that committee's background was reviewed. From what I remember no one on sitting at that table had any experience to be at that table. Some had a couple of writing credits but that is about it.

I wonder if that is the same committee you are talking about.
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Re: Episode 9 Spoilerrific review/discussion

Post by RK_Striker_JK_5 »

Nutso wrote:
RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:
Nutso wrote: But if they adapted The Thrawn Trilogy, or really any of the old EU, they would have have a blueprint to follow, a plot, a story, a villain, rather than this pathetic mishmash of ideas each director put in to their respective movies. I don't think the ideas themselves are bad but, trying to join them, or just outright dropping each other's ideas, made for a mishmash of a trilogy.
Or if they adapted the Thrawn trilogy then they'd have to adapt every single piece of the EU, or at least that's what some folks tell me. Because apparently unlike the MCU, Star Wars would have to adapt everything, even the shitty stuff. :roll:
Remember the "Story Group Committee?" The Committee assembled to streamline and bring to order the new Expanded Universe? I remember them. I was excited about this. I joined reddit, I was going to follow the breaking news of what will be canon, and what will be removed. Take out the bad (Sun Crusher,) keep the good (Thrawn). I was going to post this on DITL. Will stuff I like remain? Do I like garbage? I really thought this was going to be like professional sports, where we get breaking news every week before the match.

Then this all-powerful Committee reveals: Everything not in the movies, or TV shows will be non-canonized. That's it?! That's what this Committee was formed to do? They probably got a six-figure salary to be on this committee, doing tedious work that they're passionate about no doubt, and that was the solution? A Disney Executive, and Disney Executive could have done that?! Just Thanos-snap the EU away. They Dick Jones'd it, killed the EU because it made a mistake. No committee was needed for that decision. No thinking, nor work was involved. But that's what supposedly creative people were paid to do? Just say *meh* to previous decades of lore? Something any bean counter, or lawyer, or someone who doesn't know what Star Wars is could do- kill the past.

By the way, sorry you had to experience such straw-man garbage arguments. I suspect those are people, and I use that noun loosely, who only care about being right, not correct.
It's fine, thanks. the sad part is it isn't even the worst strawmanning I've seen concerning the EU.

"Oh, you like those books? I remember one odd story in it. God, it was bad. Ruins the entire thing overall, doesn't it? How can you like it when this one story is there?"

The sad part is I'm only exaggerating a little. I fully acknowledge there's been some shitty stuff in the EU. I also wish i lived in a reality with a live-action Thrawn Trilogy movie series, a live-action Rogue/Wraith Squadron TV series, and an animated Junior/Young Jedi Knight series.

Because guess what, assholes? Every fucking franchise has good and bad in it. And sometimes their criticism reveals just how little they know. Every time someone bags on the Jedi Prince series and how juvenile they are?

Guess what? Those books were written for the very young, basically 'My First Star Wars'. :roll:
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Re: Episode 9 Spoilerrific review/discussion

Post by Nutso »

McAvoy wrote:
Nutso wrote: Remember the "Story Group Committee?" The Committee assembled to streamline and bring to order the new Expanded Universe? I remember them. I was excited about this. I joined reddit, I was going to follow the breaking news of what will be canon, and what will be removed. Take out the bad (Sun Crusher,) keep the good (Thrawn). I was going to post this on DITL. Will stuff I like remain? Do I like garbage? I really thought this was going to be like professional sports, where we get breaking news every week before the match.

Then this all-powerful Committee reveals: Everything not in the movies, or TV shows will be non-canonized. That's it?! That's what this Committee was formed to do? They probably got a six-figure salary to be on this committee, doing tedious work that they're passionate about no doubt, and that was the solution? A Disney Executive, and Disney Executive could have done that?! Just Thanos-snap the EU away. They Dick Jones'd it, killed the EU because it made a mistake. No committee was needed for that decision. No thinking, nor work was involved. But that's what supposedly creative people were paid to do? Just say *meh* to previous decades of lore? Something any bean counter, or lawyer, or someone who doesn't know what Star Wars is could do- kill the past.

By the way, sorry you had to experience such straw-man garbage arguments. I suspect those are people, and I use that noun loosely, who only care about being right, not correct.
I remember in some video someone broke down a committee that was formed prior to the Sequels. The whole thing was broken down and each person on that committee's background was reviewed. From what I remember no one on sitting at that table had any experience to be at that table. Some had a couple of writing credits but that is about it.

I wonder if that is the same committee you are talking about.
Your example reminds me of a complaint I heard about the sequel writing staff. But it was basically, "the writing staff is full of women, and women aren't Star Wars fans." I can't remember the complaint correctly, however, and that complaint came after The Last Jedi so it's probably not pertinent to what you brought up. Frankly your example sounds horrible and it seems unlikely that Disney would allow inexperienced writers to have control of this $billion franchise unless there was nepotism involved. Although Hollywood was in the middle of a fad of giving their big budget movies to indie directors during the (alleged) germination of the Star Wars sequels' story, so maybe some of that rubbed off. The Star Wars franchise (Lucasflim) is headed by Kathleen Kennedy, the previously most successful movie producer of all time, so she isn't a dummy when it comes to making financially successful films. It's hard to imagine that she would take chances on unproven talents to work on these expensive Star Wars projects but, then I do remember the Han Solo movie production nightmare. Such a curious case. She would know to spend money on developing this expensive franchise but, there have been missteps. In case you're curious, she was overtaken in profitability by Kevin Feige, head of the MCU.

This movie was written by Chris Terrio and JJ Abrams. Terrio's credits include the screenplay for "Argo," for which he won an Oscar, writing "Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice," screenplay and story for "Justice League" and "The Rise of Skywalker." I did research on what these terms mean- "screenplay by" means the person contributed to scenes and/or dialogue of the screenplay, "story by" means they conceived the story, "written by" means they conceived the story and wrote the screenplay. His resume does seem short but, he does have an Academdy Award.
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Re: Episode 9 Spoilerrific review/discussion

Post by Graham Kennedy »

Kathleen Kennedy (no relation!) is an interesting case study. Yes, she is "the most successful producer of all time". But... is she? A great deal of what she's produced is Spielberg movies - E.T., Poltergeist, Temple of Doom, Twilight Zone, The Color Purple, Young Sherlock Holmes, Back to the Future, Gremlins, Jurassic Park, A.I., Schindler's List...

But who here thinks that those movies are a success because of Kennedy? Normally the producer is, to some extent at least, the director's boss. They have a good deal of influence on the movie, if only because they usually choose who will be the director. But I find it hard to believe Kennedy was giving Spielberg orders on any of those movies. I doubt she picked him for any of them - more likely he chooses what movie he wants to do and hires her because he knows she won't get in his way.

Speculation, of course.
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Re: Episode 9 Spoilerrific review/discussion

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Well, Spielberg admitted that Kathleen Kennedy had an effect on they way he behaved on the set once she chewed him out for it during production on E.T.
“Basically, I was a little bit of a hothead, impatient, and I would be hard on my crew — loving to my cast but tough on my crew,” Spielberg told THR. “And about 15 days into shooting ‘E.T.,’ she pulled me into her office and sat me down in a chair and gave me the bollocking of my life. Because she did not like the way I was talking to the crew. She didn’t care for my impatience, she didn’t care for my sharpness. She said, ‘This is unacceptable behavior,’ and I hadn’t heard that since a teacher in school or my own mom — and that was a big shift in my life. I became mindful because somebody I trusted and respected had called me out.”

It’s a pretty remarkable story, especially given the movie was Kennedy’s first producing credit; it’s not always easy to speak up, particularly when it means dressing down one of Hollywood’s biggest directors. Needless to say, Kennedy and Spielberg have since got on famously and collaborated numerous times since.
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So the truth, we'll never know but, we have Spielberg's word on Kathleen Kennedy's exercising authority over him as a young hothead director.

I think Kevin Feige has kind of flipped what we thought a Producer does. I myself thought they were the money-men on a set, throwing out ideas to gain viewership and easy money, making sure costs are kept within budget, finding ways to get more money when the budget spirals out of control, office stuff, lawyer stuff, dealing with egos. Then here's comes Kevin Feige who brings out a blueprint to follow on a continually growing yet connected movie universe. He is the story leader in this franchise because unlike many other producers, he is a comic book, and therefore intimately knows the material but, also had a vision to translate this material to cinema, taking chances with previously trouble Robert Downey Jr. and an indie director like Jon Favreau, and showing massive chutzpah by planting the MCU seeds in Iron Man (2007). He can also be accused of turning movies into a formula but, it's been a $22.5billion formula over 23 movies and 12 years.

I wonder how Star Wars would have turned out if Lucasfilm had gotten to Feige first. He is supposed to be a Star Wars nerd.
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If this nerd quality extended to the Expanded Universe, we might have had a very different Star Wars today. Something streamlined but consistent, utilizing characters we love that have never been on film (Mara Jade), and now never will. Characters who have motivations, characterizations, and purpose to the plot already built-in to this universe. If his MCU is anything to go by, we may have been more pleased with what we got. But that's wild, baseless speculation.

Maybe Kennedy was too lenient on her directors? Allowing them to do their own ideas rather than giving them a set of rules to follow. Would have at least been more consistent if J.J. Abrams didn't leave after TFA. At least the sequels would have been his kind of story, made more for the masses.
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Re: Episode 9 Spoilerrific review/discussion

Post by McAvoy »

Nutso wrote:
McAvoy wrote:
Nutso wrote: Remember the "Story Group Committee?" The Committee assembled to streamline and bring to order the new Expanded Universe? I remember them. I was excited about this. I joined reddit, I was going to follow the breaking news of what will be canon, and what will be removed. Take out the bad (Sun Crusher,) keep the good (Thrawn). I was going to post this on DITL. Will stuff I like remain? Do I like garbage? I really thought this was going to be like professional sports, where we get breaking news every week before the match.

Then this all-powerful Committee reveals: Everything not in the movies, or TV shows will be non-canonized. That's it?! That's what this Committee was formed to do? They probably got a six-figure salary to be on this committee, doing tedious work that they're passionate about no doubt, and that was the solution? A Disney Executive, and Disney Executive could have done that?! Just Thanos-snap the EU away. They Dick Jones'd it, killed the EU because it made a mistake. No committee was needed for that decision. No thinking, nor work was involved. But that's what supposedly creative people were paid to do? Just say *meh* to previous decades of lore? Something any bean counter, or lawyer, or someone who doesn't know what Star Wars is could do- kill the past.

By the way, sorry you had to experience such straw-man garbage arguments. I suspect those are people, and I use that noun loosely, who only care about being right, not correct.
I remember in some video someone broke down a committee that was formed prior to the Sequels. The whole thing was broken down and each person on that committee's background was reviewed. From what I remember no one on sitting at that table had any experience to be at that table. Some had a couple of writing credits but that is about it.

I wonder if that is the same committee you are talking about.
Your example reminds me of a complaint I heard about the sequel writing staff. But it was basically, "the writing staff is full of women, and women aren't Star Wars fans." I can't remember the complaint correctly, however, and that complaint came after The Last Jedi so it's probably not pertinent to what you brought up. Frankly your example sounds horrible and it seems unlikely that Disney would allow inexperienced writers to have control of this $billion franchise unless there was nepotism involved. Although Hollywood was in the middle of a fad of giving their big budget movies to indie directors during the (alleged) germination of the Star Wars sequels' story, so maybe some of that rubbed off. The Star Wars franchise (Lucasflim) is headed by Kathleen Kennedy, the previously most successful movie producer of all time, so she isn't a dummy when it comes to making financially successful films. It's hard to imagine that she would take chances on unproven talents to work on these expensive Star Wars projects but, then I do remember the Han Solo movie production nightmare. Such a curious case. She would know to spend money on developing this expensive franchise but, there have been missteps. In case you're curious, she was overtaken in profitability by Kevin Feige, head of the MCU.
The video I am thinking of was made after the Last Jedi. Yes the person who talked about it, said it was a all woman or near all woman committee. But I don't think he ever said anything they couldn't be fans because they were women. He was more of pointing out the qualifications of these women to be on the committee. From the information he was able to gather himself.

It's possible what you are thinking of are two people reporting from some info that was revealed at the same time with their own personal bias added to it.
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Re: Episode 9 Spoilerrific review/discussion

Post by Nutso »

McAvoy wrote:
Nutso wrote:
McAvoy wrote:
I remember in some video someone broke down a committee that was formed prior to the Sequels. The whole thing was broken down and each person on that committee's background was reviewed. From what I remember no one on sitting at that table had any experience to be at that table. Some had a couple of writing credits but that is about it.

I wonder if that is the same committee you are talking about.
Your example reminds me of a complaint I heard about the sequel writing staff. But it was basically, "the writing staff is full of women, and women aren't Star Wars fans." I can't remember the complaint correctly, however, and that complaint came after The Last Jedi so it's probably not pertinent to what you brought up. Frankly your example sounds horrible and it seems unlikely that Disney would allow inexperienced writers to have control of this $billion franchise unless there was nepotism involved. Although Hollywood was in the middle of a fad of giving their big budget movies to indie directors during the (alleged) germination of the Star Wars sequels' story, so maybe some of that rubbed off. The Star Wars franchise (Lucasflim) is headed by Kathleen Kennedy, the previously most successful movie producer of all time, so she isn't a dummy when it comes to making financially successful films. It's hard to imagine that she would take chances on unproven talents to work on these expensive Star Wars projects but, then I do remember the Han Solo movie production nightmare. Such a curious case. She would know to spend money on developing this expensive franchise but, there have been missteps. In case you're curious, she was overtaken in profitability by Kevin Feige, head of the MCU.
The video I am thinking of was made after the Last Jedi. Yes the person who talked about it, said it was a all woman or near all woman committee. But I don't think he ever said anything they couldn't be fans because they were women. He was more of pointing out the qualifications of these women to be on the committee. From the information he was able to gather himself.

It's possible what you are thinking of are two people reporting from some info that was revealed at the same time with their own personal bias added to it.
To your original point, after researching, it is them. The Story Group. The ones who wiped away the canon are the same inexperienced writers who control Star Wars. Turns out they aren't so controlling, allowing every creator freedom. They just made sure there were no major violations of whatever the lore/canon is now; they would ask book writers to insert characters that will be used in future stories, and they believe there's no truth in Star Wars because it's easy to change information. Probably explains why there was no overall arc for the sequel trilogy. J.J. Abrams created the sequel, Rian Johnson had his own ideas, J.J. returns with his own ideas. The Story Group don't make stories. They're a committee the way the government has a committee filled with unqualified people who dole out orders to the qualified people. Except the Story Group had much less oversight.
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Re: Episode 9 Spoilerrific review/discussion

Post by RK_Striker_JK_5 »

Okay, finally saw it this afternoon. First off, fuck trailers. i don't mean specifically for this movie. I mean in general. Movie was supposed to start at 12:45 PM. That is when the trailers started up and ran for nearly a half-hour! Ugh... :bangwall:

Anyway... I'm not sure if I had super-low expectations due to the Last Jedi, or what, but I really liked it.
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Re: Episode 9 Spoilerrific review/discussion

Post by Graham Kennedy »

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:Okay, finally saw it this afternoon. First off, fuck trailers. i don't mean specifically for this movie. I mean in general. Movie was supposed to start at 12:45 PM. That is when the trailers started up and ran for nearly a half-hour! Ugh... :bangwall:

Anyway... I'm not sure if I had super-low expectations due to the Last Jedi, or what, but I really liked it.
It's a hard film to judge in terms of whether people like it, because on the one hand, it's a pretty bad film. But on the other hand, it's an entertaining one.
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