Dominion War : Leaving DS9 was a Strategic Mistake

Deep Space Nine
Post Reply
bladela
Lieutenant jg
Lieutenant jg
Posts: 261
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:36 am

Dominion War : Leaving DS9 was a Strategic Mistake

Post by bladela »

"in casa dal 4 marzo, come sono felice"
"at home since March 4th, how happy I am"
User avatar
McAvoy
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Posts: 5977
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:39 am
Location: East Windsor, NJ

Re: Dominion War : Leaving DS9 was a Strategic Mistake

Post by McAvoy »

I always felt that a cloaked Klingon fleet would have been effective. Like five minutes out with the Dominion fleet occupied with DS9 then they de-cloak and in a surprise attack fashion destroy dozens of ships before the Dominion could respond.

I think that would have been better than let's say sending a large Federation fleet to help defend the station. The Dominion would just send a larger fleet but with the Klingons they would have had a harder time accounting for them. Assuming the element of surprise is kept.
"Don't underestimate the power of technobabble: the Federation can win anything with the sheer force of bullshit"
User avatar
00111010 01000100
Lieutenant
Lieutenant
Posts: 404
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:39 pm
Location: Maine, US

Re: Dominion War : Leaving DS9 was a Strategic Mistake

Post by 00111010 01000100 »

That or bring in some ole Red Matter and make a micro-black hole just in front of the escaping dominion ships!

j/k. There were quite a few alternatives to what they went with that would’ve made sense strategically but would’ve ended the story rather quickly. So did the writers make a wise decision or a shortcut to make ends meet of getting the DS9 show -> BACK to DS9?
“Pull a stunt like this again and I’ll court marshal you... or promote you. Either way you’ll be in big trouble”
bladela
Lieutenant jg
Lieutenant jg
Posts: 261
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:36 am

Re: Dominion War : Leaving DS9 was a Strategic Mistake

Post by bladela »

McAvoy wrote:I always felt that a cloaked Klingon fleet would have been effective. Like five minutes out with the Dominion fleet occupied with DS9 then they de-cloak and in a surprise attack fashion destroy dozens of ships before the Dominion could respond.
cloak not always works with dominion ship, expecially, in my opinion, for a fleet large enough to repel the enemy fleet
I think that would have been better than let's say sending a large Federation fleet to help defend the station. The Dominion would just send a larger fleet but with the Klingons they would have had a harder time accounting for them. Assuming the element of surprise is kept.
in my opinion it was not a strategic mistake, it was the only possible action for the alliance in that moment
"in casa dal 4 marzo, come sono felice"
"at home since March 4th, how happy I am"
User avatar
McAvoy
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Posts: 5977
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:39 am
Location: East Windsor, NJ

Re: Dominion War : Leaving DS9 was a Strategic Mistake

Post by McAvoy »

It may not work but the Dominion would be more occupied with DS9 and may not be looking for it. On the other hand, even a cloaked fleet detected five minutes out for example would be more of a surprise than a Federation fleet detected 20 or 30 minutes out.
"Don't underestimate the power of technobabble: the Federation can win anything with the sheer force of bullshit"
Coalition
Lieutenant Commander
Lieutenant Commander
Posts: 1063
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:34 am
Location: Georgia, United States
Contact:

Re: Dominion War : Leaving DS9 was a Strategic Mistake

Post by Coalition »

One reason the Federation might have used for abandoning DS9 is that it is really close to Cardassia Prime. The goal would be to prevent the Dominion getting reinforcements (accomplished via replicating minefield), and using the C/D fleet's attention to strike elsewhere (accomplished via the strike on the shipyards). At that point, you are holding on to a weak station very close to the enemy main industrial center, meaning the C/D forces are much closer to their repair/resupply center, giving them the ability to maintain a higher rate of operations.

Holding on to DS9 for the Federation would be worse than capturing Midway would have been for the Japanese.
Relativity Calculator
My Nomination for "MVAM Critic Award" (But can it be broken into 3 separate pieces?)
User avatar
McAvoy
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Posts: 5977
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:39 am
Location: East Windsor, NJ

Re: Dominion War : Leaving DS9 was a Strategic Mistake

Post by McAvoy »

There is that. The Allies were not prepared that early on to defend that station which could easily give the Dominion their full attention.

Whereas, after they retook the station the Dominion suffered loses, the Allies were more prepared and the open secret that the Wormhole aliens were preventing the Dominion reinforcements.

Though I always wondered how much better DS9 would have fared of there was a fleet there to provide support. Think about how I think 9 Federation ships (one of them a Galaxy class) was enough to give the Klingons pause (among other things as well).

Then again I also wondered why didn't Starfleet develop actual defense platforms like the Cardassians did. I'd imagine something similar but it would be controlled by DS9. It would make that area like a fortress.
"Don't underestimate the power of technobabble: the Federation can win anything with the sheer force of bullshit"
bladela
Lieutenant jg
Lieutenant jg
Posts: 261
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:36 am

Re: Dominion War : Leaving DS9 was a Strategic Mistake

Post by bladela »

McAvoy wrote:There is that. The Allies were not prepared that early on to defend that station which could easily give the Dominion their full attention.

Whereas, after they retook the station the Dominion suffered loses, the Allies were more prepared and the open secret that the Wormhole aliens were preventing the Dominion reinforcements.

I agree, also because I imagine that many ships in the fleet could still be traveling to get to the front, given how large the federation is and how slow its ships are, a few more months can mean hundreds more ships lined up at the front
Though I always wondered how much better DS9 would have fared of there was a fleet there to provide support. Think about how I think 9 Federation ships (one of them a Galaxy class) was enough to give the Klingons pause (among other things as well).
I believe that the dominion-Cardassian fleet was significantly stronger and better prepared than the Klingon one, I doubt that few starships could have done a difference, apart from being torn to pieces.
Then again I also wondered why didn't Starfleet develop actual defense platforms like the Cardassians did. I'd imagine something similar but it would be controlled by DS9. It would make that area like a fortress.

I think likely the Starfleet has installed similar positions at key installations and planets, such as utopia planitia, the san francisco yards and the like, but building them around the station would have required a huge logistical effort perhaps
"in casa dal 4 marzo, come sono felice"
"at home since March 4th, how happy I am"
User avatar
Captain Seafort
4 Star Admiral
4 Star Admiral
Posts: 15548
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:44 pm
Location: Blighty

Re: Dominion War : Leaving DS9 was a Strategic Mistake

Post by Captain Seafort »

bladela wrote:
Though I always wondered how much better DS9 would have fared of there was a fleet there to provide support. Think about how I think 9 Federation ships (one of them a Galaxy class) was enough to give the Klingons pause (among other things as well).
I believe that the dominion-Cardassian fleet was significantly stronger and better prepared than the Klingon one, I doubt that few starships could have done a difference, apart from being torn to pieces.
I doubt the Klingons gave two shits about fighting nine starships, even if one of them was a GCS. They were worried about the several thousand other ships that those nine represented, and which they would have to worry about in addition to the Cardassians they were already fighting if they'd picked a fight with the nine.
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.
User avatar
Graham Kennedy
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 11561
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:28 pm
Location: Banbury, UK
Contact:

Re: Dominion War : Leaving DS9 was a Strategic Mistake

Post by Graham Kennedy »

Captain Seafort wrote:
bladela wrote:
Though I always wondered how much better DS9 would have fared of there was a fleet there to provide support. Think about how I think 9 Federation ships (one of them a Galaxy class) was enough to give the Klingons pause (among other things as well).
I believe that the dominion-Cardassian fleet was significantly stronger and better prepared than the Klingon one, I doubt that few starships could have done a difference, apart from being torn to pieces.
I doubt the Klingons gave two shits about fighting nine starships, even if one of them was a GCS. They were worried about the several thousand other ships that those nine represented, and which they would have to worry about in addition to the Cardassians they were already fighting if they'd picked a fight with the nine.
That was my impression. Shooting up a Bajoran station under Federation control is one thing, shooting up a Federation task force is crossing a whole other line.
Give a man a fire, and you keep him warm for a day. SET a man on fire, and you will keep him warm for the rest of his life...
bladela
Lieutenant jg
Lieutenant jg
Posts: 261
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:36 am

Re: Dominion War : Leaving DS9 was a Strategic Mistake

Post by bladela »

Graham Kennedy wrote: That was my impression. Shooting up a Bajoran station under Federation control is one thing, shooting up a Federation task force is crossing a whole other line.
i agree, at that time Gowron had no intention of starting also a war with the Federation, in my opinion
"in casa dal 4 marzo, come sono felice"
"at home since March 4th, how happy I am"
User avatar
Nutso
2 Star Admiral
2 Star Admiral
Posts: 9125
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:58 pm

Re: Dominion War : Leaving DS9 was a Strategic Mistake

Post by Nutso »

"Bible, Wrath of Khan, what's the difference?"
Stan - South Park
User avatar
00111010 01000100
Lieutenant
Lieutenant
Posts: 404
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:39 pm
Location: Maine, US

Re: Dominion War : Leaving DS9 was a Strategic Mistake

Post by 00111010 01000100 »

The dominion was somewhat able to penetrate cloaks with that Anti-proton scan. But still, I can see the effectiveness of having a cloaked fleet by DS9 versus a fleet of starfleet ships visibly orbiting it. The main issue of either fleet is the wormholes proximity to the station. With the listening posts destroyed, the only warning the station would have prior to a dominion attack is the neutrino surge their sensors pick up just before it opens. The only defense against that is Sisko making the request of the prophets to “be gods!”, send invading fleets away. Anyone else wondering where they sent that dominion fleet? Besides me I mean.
“Pull a stunt like this again and I’ll court marshal you... or promote you. Either way you’ll be in big trouble”
Coalition
Lieutenant Commander
Lieutenant Commander
Posts: 1063
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:34 am
Location: Georgia, United States
Contact:

Re: Dominion War : Leaving DS9 was a Strategic Mistake

Post by Coalition »

00111010 01000100 wrote: Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:49 am The dominion was somewhat able to penetrate cloaks with that Anti-proton scan. But still, I can see the effectiveness of having a cloaked fleet by DS9 versus a fleet of starfleet ships visibly orbiting it. The main issue of either fleet is the wormholes proximity to the station. With the listening posts destroyed, the only warning the station would have prior to a dominion attack is the neutrino surge their sensors pick up just before it opens. The only defense against that is Sisko making the request of the prophets to “be gods!”, send invading fleets away. Anyone else wondering where they sent that dominion fleet? Besides me I mean.
Star Trek: Online had that fleet popping out years later
Relativity Calculator
My Nomination for "MVAM Critic Award" (But can it be broken into 3 separate pieces?)
Post Reply