Seniority

[KuvahMagh]

I have to agree, as far as not for any length of time.

However, both Lieutenant Commanders Dax and Worf were assigned as "Captain" of USS Defiant for different missions.

Thats the thing, Captain can either refer to the person's rank or to the Tradition Name of the CO which can be a person not a Rank Captain.

[Thorin]

Sorry - I should have said we've never seen anyone lower in rank than Captain given full captaincy of a starship, at least to my knowledge.

[Thorin]

Captaincy basically meaning that the CO can actually call the ship 'theirs'.

[Aaron]

Thats the thing, Captain can either refer to the person's rank or to the Tradition Name of the CO which can be a person not a Rank Captain.

Indeed Captain is both an appointment (CO of the vessel) and a rank (what used to be called Post Captain). Unfortunately in Trek it's rarely specified who's what and the times that Dax/Worf/Kira where in command of Defiant they were a Captain only in title.

[KuvahMagh]

Sorry - I should have said we've never seen anyone lower in rank than Captain given full captaincy of a starship, at least to my knowledge.

I agree with you and I honestly chalk that up to writers not wanting to confuse the audience, they probably figure we are too stupid to understand why someone with 3 gold pips is being called a Captain all the time... that and I doubt they could figure it out for themsleves 90% of the time...

[Mark]

While we are on this train of thought, I have to admit it confuses me why Starfleet would feel the need to have full captains assigned command of every little escort, frigate, or scout. You'd think some of these jobs could be givin to some slightly junior officers (like a Lt. Cmdr or a Cmdr). How does Starfleet come by such a great number of highly qualified individuals? I understand the sheer size of Starfleet vs the number of ships she has, but, wouldn't you almost have to be promoting somebody to fill a top spot, say on a Sabre class who otherwise would never see a command position? Any thoughts?

[Mikey]

Sisko was the only instance I recall of that sort of common sense. I think this is a prime example of the writers a) not wanting to confuse the "lay" audience with the distinction between a "captain" rank and a "captain" assignment; or b) as KM said, not really knowing the difference themselves.

[KuvahMagh]

While we are on this train of thought, I have to admit it confuses me why Starfleet would feel the need to have full captains assigned command of every little escort, frigate, or scout. You'd think some of these jobs could be givin to some slightly junior officers (like a Lt. Cmdr or a Cmdr). How does Starfleet come by such a great number of highly qualified individuals? I understand the sheer size of Starfleet vs the number of ships she has, but, wouldn't you almost have to be promoting somebody to fill a top spot, say on a Sabre class who otherwise would never see a command position? Any thoughts?

Thats mostly what I was talking about in my last post... as to the "great number of highly qualified individuals"... I'll let the episodes and movies speak for me...

Mikey, I actuyally said both lol.

[Mikey]

Mikey, I actuyally said both lol.

Of course... I knew that.

[Aaron]

While we are on this train of thought, I have to admit it confuses me why Starfleet would feel the need to have full captains assigned command of every little escort, frigate, or scout. You'd think some of these jobs could be givin to some slightly junior officers (like a Lt. Cmdr or a Cmdr). How does Starfleet come by such a great number of highly qualified individuals? I understand the sheer size of Starfleet vs the number of ships she has, but, wouldn't you almost have to be promoting somebody to fill a top spot, say on a Sabre class who otherwise would never see a command position? Any thoughts?

This would seriously create an incredibely disgruntled officer corps. Think about it: Picard was CO of Stargazer for twenty years, occupying a slot that 10 others could have rotated through if they used a standard posting schedule. Same with Kirk and Picard with the E-D/E-E. It also prevents officers from working for a high profile posting, Starfleets CO assignments appear to be based on first come, first serve. So if your unlucky and there's no newer ships available (because their CO's have fossilized in the chair) than you get a Miranda or Oberth and you can't move up.

That's why RL navies have frigates, destroyers etc Captained by a Lt.Commander or Commander. To provide experiance and upward mobility.

[KuvahMagh]

One of my old National Managers told me a story once about why Walmart rotates its Store Management every few years...

He said if a pen is dropped on the floor of an office and the same person sits there for five years the pen stays on the floor when someone new comes in, whats the first thing they do, they pick up the pen. Leaving a single person in the same post for so long not only gives them the feeling that they own the place but it also decreases efficeincy since everyone gets so used to everything, a new person will shake things up and get the ball rolling again though.

[Aaron]

One of my old National Managers told me a story once about why Walmart rotates its Store Management every few years...

He said if a pen is dropped on the floor of an office and the same person sits there for five years the pen stays on the floor when someone new comes in, whats the first thing they do, they pick up the pen. Leaving a single person in the same post for so long not only gives them the feeling that they own the place but it also decreases efficeincy since everyone gets so used to everything, a new person will shake things up and get the ball rolling again though.

Indeed, a permanent posting invites (and encourages) stagnation.

[Mark]

I know I would be SERIOUSLY put out myself, if after spending 4 years in the acadamy, another 15 or 20 years working my way up through the ranks, and finally, when getting my big break, getting stuck in a 100 year old Miranda class doing something like police runs along the Orion border, with no chance of getting anything better, unless I managed some unlikely heroic feat like Picard. I may make an excellent battlegroup commander, but we'd never know, because I'd be chasing smuggelers until by some miricle I made Admiral and got assigned to a desk.

[Mark]

An interesting point and a good one. Every so often Captains SHOULD be shaken up a little bit.

[Aaron]

I imagine the Fleet ombudsman (or whatever they have) is backed up for decades with greviences.