www.ditl.org

Placed here since there's no "Redundant and obvious news" forum, but it bears repeating.

The depressing news:

http://arstechnica.com/science/2014/04/ ... e-erratic/

and some more here:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/201 ... urvey-says

'Murica fuck yeah! Luv our guns and God and shit! Fuck yeah! Woo hoo! Nascar! Bud light! Miller light!

Captain Picard's Hair wrote:Placed here since there's no "Redundant and obvious news" forum, but it bears repeating.

The depressing news:

http://arstechnica.com/science/2014/04/ ... e-erratic/

and some more here:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/201 ... urvey-says

With the sun and the earth one I wonder how many people might be...what is the British term..."taking the piss"? I really doubt they do these surveys in such a way that you get an extra five bucks for every answer you get right. If you do get something your only motivation is probably getting it done as fast as possible.

Beyond that the climate change question in particular might be seen as a more of a psychology experiment as opposed to a measure of scientific knowledge. Like if you sat someone in a room with a blue table, and then later asked them if the color of the table was blue but noted that if enough people agree the table is blue than all of them will be charged a "tax", and the money will be sent abroad to strengthen a foreign country, possibly one that hates you.

I think a lot of is that people just literally dont think about it, and havent thought about it for years, so when put on the spot they are like "Yeah the sun goes around the Earth, I see it happen every day" but when you take a second to talk to them they realise their mistake.

Teaos wrote:I think a lot of is that people just literally dont think about it, and havent thought about it for years, so when put on the spot they are like "Yeah the sun goes around the Earth, I see it happen every day" but when you take a second to talk to them they realise their mistake.

I don't believe there is anything to think about, really. The fact that the Earth orbits the Sun is simple knowledge that has been around for hundreds of years. You either know it or you don't. It's just like asking someone if people die and him saying 'No' because he's been alive every day before being asked the question and did not think about death. It is nonsense...

The more interesting problem is that of global warming. I have read articles that dismissed it out of hand, saying that it's an invented problem meant to milk money out of the people.

For instance: A history of the disastrous global warming hoax

I guess it is a much more difficult problem to put your finger on, and localized events - low temperatures and such - make it very easy for some to argue against planet warming on a global scale.

I agree. The Earth orbiting around the Sun is something you should know practically instantly. Or you should. It is perhaps the most basic thing you can learn about the planets. There is no political or religious reason why they should think otherwise unlike evolution.

McAvoy wrote:There is no political or religious reason why they should think otherwise unlike evolution.

Which reminds me of this:
Belief is optional

The US educational system has been on a downslide since at least '80s. I do not find it amazing that many cannot locate....Madagascar on a map, hell many could not find Idaho on a map. My father encountered an individual who thought a square foot was 12" long and 1" wide (i.e. a ruler). So finding people that don't know that the Earth orbits the Sun is not out of the realm of possibility. As long as our population is educated on their self worth and not the "Three R's" and Science it is going to remain this bad (probably get worse). I could wax political about the issue, so it is perhaps best that I don't.

I have found some bad and they are classic. Some do not want anything to do with 'science with dirt' and that is far reaching than your think. The concept of gravity of small particles escaped them for example. This I have literally sat next to and tried to explain in Biblican terms

Out of curiosity I followed the link in the second article there to the actual study in question. I haven't delved deeply.

But I note that, as sad as a quarter of the people getting the sun/earth question wrong in the US is, we still beat the EU where a solid third got it wrong!

It is disturbing though when people show a lack of knowledge on questions where there aren't campaigns pushing for the other answer (though most of those selected for the study do).

Vic wrote:The US educational system has been on a downslide since at least '80s. I do not find it amazing that many cannot locate....Madagascar on a map

Ok, bits of knowledge like that aren't even on the curriculum. And if the survey results we are discussing are remotely true than I don't think it needs to be added.

I think I'd start with issues like "Antibiotics kill viruses as well as bacteria" and "All radioactivity is man-made" because risks of infection and radon are things that matter for everyone in day to day life in addition to their importance in futher education and policy.

On a side note, I think the question on electrons being smaller than atoms might be wrong. An electron has a lower rest mass, so they could pose a question like that. However in the quantum mechanical reality "size" becomes a rather more abstract concept. I suspect for most measures in most boundry conditions a free electron is going to have a larger "size" than an atom.

"Leave no child behind"... So instead of the smart kids setting the bar, or even a general level of education requirement... all kids must drop to the level of the biggest moron in the class.

"Hi class. Well, Stupid Johnny didn't understand yesterday's lesson so instead of learning anything new we have to go over it again. Can someone tell Johnny to stop licking the window?"

Jim wrote:"Leave no child behind"... So instead of the smart kids setting the bar, or even a general level of education requirement... all kids must drop to the level of the biggest moron in the class.

"Hi class. Well, Stupid Johnny didn't understand yesterday's lesson so instead of learning anything new we have to go over it again. Can someone tell Johnny to stop licking the window?"

Well, Common Core is the new education "thing". It's initial roll out seems to be about as popular as "No Child Left Behind" was. Though part of that might be because a fair number of people get their information on subjects like that from comedy shows that only mention things they intend to make fun of. On an unrealted note I wonder how much that affects American's understanding of most everyting.

Though the Johnny example above is still largely in play. In modern American sentiment and among educators there is an exceedingly strong feeling that it just isn't acceptable to say "You know what? Johnny is just a loser. It's time to give up and leave him to insulting people's mothers in Call of Duty when he isn't flipping burgers, getting high, or trying to get on the welfare roles." Of course someone will always chirp up proposing "all of the above" solutions, but there's always the matter of budgets.