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I found it interesting, that after the big fuss made in the beginning of the film over young Kirk's loose interpretation of Starfleet orders and directives (even to the point of losing his commission temporarily) that the plot hinged on reinstated Captain Kirk disobeying Adm. Marcus order to take Harrison/Khan out with torpedoes immediately. Even though this was a case of the Admiral being wrong (Kirk was proved right) it was, technically, another case of insubordination.

I thought that was the point? That Kirk be pulled back a little bit and see that his actions have consequences, but that sometimes it is what is needed at the end of the day.

Well Kirk has always been a character who would do what he felt was right, even if this movie made it seem he went too far in the IU year between the two films. I definitely see the maturation curve of Kirk here, in which he learns how to moderate his strong will to do right while... well, keeping his head off the chopping block from his superiors!

Perhaps it's therefore an inevitable feature of such a plot, but it's worthy of note that Kirk saves Starfleet precisely by disobeying an order. Yes, though, he does seem to learn when and when not to cross his superiors.

I think there would be some directive about not opening fire on a species homeworld with whom you are not yet at war.

And it wasn't simply breaking an order that got him in trouble in the first place. It was:
1) Violating Prime Directive (not an order, but a mandate, very different)
2) not mentioning such in the official report
3) after this, arguing with a superior

It was also another in a long list of offences.

Teaos wrote:It was also another in a long list of offences.

Sure. I wasn't arguing about the relative severity of this breach compared to past transgressions but there's a bit of irony to appreciate in it. Kirk was due to be humbled, and meeting Khan is certainly a fast way to be seriously humbled.

Do you think we will se Khan again in a few movies? "The re-wraith of Khan"

Teaos wrote:Do you think we will se Khan again in a few movies? "The re-wraith of Khan"

It is very notable that Khan (and other 72 supermen) weren't killed but put into storage. The idea certainly occurred to me that they might be re-awakened in a future film.

Very interesting death sentence, just letting someone sleep in a frozen coma until the life support runs out.

Good lord I hope this isn't going to be a multi-movie plot.

While I have nothing against them if they do want to rehash a plot, well, that's kind of what ST 2009 was.

I was really hoping to see something new in this film but I guess the temptation to emulate greatness was just too much.

The problem is Spock's, IMO, extremely corny "KHAAAAAAAAANNNNNNN" for one killed the mood there, and a couple of other things just simply kept this one from being pure awesomeness. It could have been, despite being a rehash, but they kind of sabotaged their own efforts, again, IMO.

Even Enterprise did the Augment plot far better than this.


So I really, REALLY hope the next film is something different.

There are enough decent elements that make me want to see it again tho (but in a non RPX, non 3D film, gahh).



^ Comment/mini-review.

LaughingCheese wrote:Good lord I hope this isn't going to be a multi-movie plot.

While I have nothing against them if they do want to rehash a plot, well, that's kind of what ST 2009 was.

I was really hoping to see something new in this film but I guess the temptation to emulate greatness was just too much.

The problem is Spock's, IMO, extremely corny "KHAAAAAAAAANNNNNNN" for one killed the mood there, and a couple of other things just simply kept this one from being pure awesomeness. It could have been, despite being a rehash, but they kind of sabotaged their own efforts, again, IMO.

Even Enterprise did the Augment plot far better than this.


So I really, REALLY hope the next film is something different.

There are enough decent elements that make me want to see it again tho (but in a non RPX, non 3D film, gahh).

I actually thought it came out pretty well considering it did go over a lot of established territory. The writers created enough of a different spin on things IMO, like reversing the Kirk/Spock role in regards to the warp core bit.

Captain Picard's Hair wrote:

LaughingCheese wrote:Good lord I hope this isn't going to be a multi-movie plot.

While I have nothing against them if they do want to rehash a plot, well, that's kind of what ST 2009 was.

I was really hoping to see something new in this film but I guess the temptation to emulate greatness was just too much.

The problem is Spock's, IMO, extremely corny "KHAAAAAAAAANNNNNNN" for one killed the mood there, and a couple of other things just simply kept this one from being pure awesomeness. It could have been, despite being a rehash, but they kind of sabotaged their own efforts, again, IMO.

Even Enterprise did the Augment plot far better than this.


So I really, REALLY hope the next film is something different.

There are enough decent elements that make me want to see it again tho (but in a non RPX, non 3D film, gahh).

I actually thought it came out pretty well considering it did go over a lot of established territory. The writers created enough of a different spin on things IMO, like reversing the Kirk/Spock role in regards to the warp core bit.

I am glad this community enjoyed it so much. Perhaps I'll like it more in 2D, in a theatre with sane sound levels.

Poor Bernd's head is going to probably explode tho...



On a side note, I also just realized the Vengeance is sort of the analogue to the Miranda(not that the Vengeance isn't awesome), dang, sooo many parrallels. If you want to do that, fine, but PLEASE, come up with something new for the next one!!

At least there won't Star Trek III: Search for Kirk.


Sid side note, I'm going to start rating movies based on USS Vengeances.

1 Vengeance = your movie will be utterly obliterated by the mear site of the USS Vengeance.

5 Vengeances = your movie is probably from the 24th century, either prime or neo timelinez, and/or is a Star Destroyer, either the vanilla type or super star destroyer, and the USS Vengeance stands no chance.

I don't understand why they couldn't just use the blood from one of the others, maybe just don't want to take the risk of it not working.
It would have given Khan an opportunity to escape so they can create a franchise.

I suppose it's possible that They figured the other popsicle people's blood may or may not have the same healing factors. Not something you'd really want to gamble on.

Tholian_Avenger wrote:I don't understand why they couldn't just use the blood from one of the others, maybe just don't want to take the risk of it not working.
It would have given Khan an opportunity to escape so they can create a franchise.

PLEASE, DON'T JINX IT!!!!


Don't we want someting new with this new crew for the next film?


EDIT: Also didn't McCoy have to do a complete blood transfusion?

1. What the heck are the odds that their blood would be compatible? (No really, I have zero clue about blood types, I kind of thought you had to be sort of careful?)


2. Doesn't a complete blood transfusion kill you? I suppose Khan's blood "just" regenerates, but oh well.

I hope HISHE will pick up on that.