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I was reading a few pieces of ST fanfiction over the last few weeks, along with some editorials which I actually find more interesting in a way. And a lot of them portray Section 31 as having quite a large power base.

Most of them have them possessing ships, hidden space stations and bases. Full crew all working for them. I think this is mostly in response to the huge fleet we see the RSE and CU intelligence agencies field in DS9.

I always thought this would be counter to what Section 31 is all about, a group of individuals working in anonymity. Working under everyone's noses in plain sight. They might have a hundred full time people with a few times that number of informants such as Dr Bashir. If they needed a ship they could just acquire one for awhile, but having their own personal ships seems like a pointless and needless risk.

I agree. The Tal Shiar and Obsidian Order are well heard of and feared, by native citizens and enemies alike. Section 31 has its power in anonymity, and I don't see them as a faction that has their own fleet of ships.

Second second. I think the fanfic and such that shows a huge base inconceivably operating in secret is merely a facile attempt to explain S31's seeming power. Unfortunately, most folks go with such a facile answer without stopping to analyze what they're saying... like the fact that the larger the operation, the harder it is to keep it covert.

The most impressive thing we see Section 31 do is the Founders virus, which really could be done with a very small lab or even a lone genius.

Teaos wrote:The most impressive thing we see Section 31 do is the Founders virus, which really could be done with a very small lab or even a lone genius.

Indeed, if things are supposed to be kept secret, a smaller group is better.

I think that is why they have been around for so long, because they are so small. I doubt they had their own power base that includes ships, bases and even troops. They were mainly shadows behind the shadows.

I have to wonder how many people in Star Fleet actually know they exist. Do all of the Admirality know? Are they just rumored like the MIB? Do only a small number know?

We've never seen anyone go "Section 31? I thought they were just a legend" implying that they had heard of them but never believed it.

I wouldn't be surprised if they're common knowledge among the Admiralty - they're dependant on Starfleet for their transportation and logistics, so it would make sense for them to be able to call in the big guns with the minimum of fuss hen necessary.

Captain Seafort wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if they're common knowledge among the Admiralty - they're dependant on Starfleet for their transportation and logistics, so it would make sense for them to be able to call in the big guns with the minimum of fuss hen necessary.

That's difficult, though - Starfleet admiralty seems to be nigh infinite in its numbers, and that large of a personnel base makes secrecy next to impossible.

I'd see S31 as having a few actual people in it, but with thousands if not hundreds of thousands who agree with some part of their beliefs. I.e. one person might not agree on a colonization issue, but be supportive of better weapons research. So S31 will mention to that person about a weapons program that needs help. That volunteer will then do all the work.

Similar to Sloan who got Bashir to help out on a few cases, but never had Bashir in S31 all the time. Sloan was the dedicated S31 operative, while Bashir was the temp.

Coalition wrote:... while Bashir was the temp.

That's what he thought.

I dont think they need people in high places to get transport. There must be tens of thousands of transports in the Federation, any quartermaster worth his salt could make a few disapear with little effort.

Sure, but it isn't just transport they need - it's something with a proper punch. If they need a Starship on call to deliver a bit of firepower in the right place, they need to a) have sufficient rank to pull and b) that rank needs to be in the right place that those orders appear to be a normal part of his duties.

Have we ever seen Section 31 use a real starship? It doesnt seem their style to ever actually go in and punch somone, they seem more the poison from afar type.

Teaos wrote:Have we ever seen Section 31 use a real starship?

Yep - the E-D when they went after the Pegasus.