Depression and Suicide

[Mark]

I watched an episode of nBSG the other night, and it made me wonder. Voyager shouldn't have made it back. It was lost over 70K lightyears from home because of your Captain, both Starfleet and Maquis felt surrounded by the enemy, had no reason to believe you'd ever see your friends and family again, on a small ship with limited resources. Add to that the fact the ship had no Ships Counsler or therapist at all (unless you count Neelix), but for some reason we see almost no real depression or suicides (either failed or successful attempts like on oBSG).

In fact, the crew is in generally high spirits through most of the show.

How realistic do you think this really is and would be? I'd think as the show progressed, and each time the ship failed to get home, hope would fade and depression would set in. I would have seen the first suicide halfway through the first season, with them springing up....eventually becoming a story focus issue.

Thoughts?

[Mikey]

Well, it's 'Trek. More specifically, these are UFP citizens who have been living under the umbrella of the most cloudy-visioned, cloying national optimism imaginable. While what you say makes infinitely more sense, it's still 'Trek. Presumably, then, that UFP spirit just sort of grew on the Maquis... like a fungus.

[Tyyr]

Voyager abandoned it's premise about episode three or four. They should have had to deal with a lot more psychological issues but they never did. Being stranded that far from home with no real prospect of ever seeing it should have resulted in some severe depressions, people going AWOL, and one or two sticking a phaser in their mouth's. This was Voyager though and if TNG didn't do it they damn sure weren't going to do it.

[Mark]

I can't help but wonder if that wouldn't have taken the show to a whole new level. I mean, we learned Trek CAN be dark in DS9. We all said it before, Voyager blew it in so many ways. They could have made an incredible show as the crew struggles for survival and trying to stay sane. People throw themselves into plasma streams. Starfleet ideals slowly falling away, sort of like the Equinox.

[Captain Seafort]

Aye, but this is Voyager. It's yet another example of the series failing to either a) stick to it's premise or b) live up to its promise.

[Lighthawk]

Suicides are a bit harder to magic button reset.

[Captain Seafort]

Suicides are a bit harder to magic button reset.

Given the way crew counts hopped around, and that SFDebris' Lazarus of the Week should really be called Harry Kim of the Week, I doubt it.

[Mikey]

Indeed, the topic - or a related one - was touched on with the [i[Equinox,[/i] but like so much else in VOY the show spit the bit when it came down to the short-and-curlies.

[Tyyr]

Really, The 37's should have seen them lose more than a few people. A new HUMAN world, fully populated, flourishing, vs. a 70 year slog home so they can arrive as senior citizens and muster out into a retirement home if they get back at all? No one jumped ship though, no one. Fuck you Voyager, fuck you.

[Mikey]

I chalk that one up to Stockholm Syndrome among the crew after their extended captivity at the hands of their kidnapper tormentor false prophet captain.

[Mark]

She must have given secret orders to Tuvok to shoot anyone who wanted to leave over an open intership comm line.

[Graham Kennedy]

As compared to BSG, a few thoughts...

BSG was mostly civilians. Most of those had to endure knowing that most or all of their family were dead. The conditions they had to live in ranged from poor to awful. Starvation was a major factor, half the people lived in filth. They also had no real government or rules - they kind of did, but really, they were making it up as they went along and legitimising it as best they could. Massive psychological pressure on every side.

Voyager was almost entirely Starfleet. All people who were used to the idea of being in space for years on end. It's common for Starfleeters to have little to no family life (seriously, the number of broken homes and families amongst Trek characters is astounding. Just think about it), so for many of them there was no wife and kids back home. Most were missing friends, parents, uncles, etc. Chakotay was like that, as was Kim, Paris, B'Elanna...

And these people know Earth is sitting waiting. It wasn't blown up, their families aren't dead. No mushroom cloud memories, no wall full of pictures.

Their living conditions are immeasurably better. No dirt, not especially cramped. Their food sucks somewhat, but it's not starvation, it feels more like Britain under WWII rationing - a diet that is bland, and may not be to your taste, but it essentially adequate and healthy. No holodecks to start with but they solved that after a year or so.

Being on Galactica's fleet is like living in a rubbish dump. Being on Voyager is like living in a hotel where the chef isn't great and the spa and pool are shut.

No surprise that they handled it a hell of a lot better.

[Mark]

Excellent points, however here are some others to consider.

Voyager wasnt equipped or staffed for a long journey. That first mission was supposed to be a short hop into the badlands, get Tuvok, and come back. This means that the crewmen with families didn't even really get a chance to say a proper goodbye, thus leaving relationships sort of hanging open. I know for a fact the quickest way to get somebody to spin out is is to have them wondering what they're BF/GF/hubby/wifey is doing while they're away.

Now, for four years they KNEW that all of they're loved ones would think they were dead. It would eat away at someone from the inside knowing that the person you loved and loved you was mourning you, and then going to move on with there lives. This was touched on briefly when Janeway got her letter from Mark, but was glossed over with an "oh well, better to have loved and lost" attitude. Once they started getting letters from home, people would have started to see the effects of what happened, and suddenly realise that the hope of seeing they're lost love again is gone forever, as she's gotten married and had two kids already.

Also, there was the Maquis factor. These men and women by and large weren't part of Starfleet, had no training, and certainly hadn't signed on for a long term deep space mission. They joined the Maquis to protect they're families and homes from the Cardies.

Finally, one big difference between nBSG and Voyager were the numbers. nBSG had roughly 220 ships and 50,000+ people to start with, so there was a bit of diversity among the people you encountered, and could concievably go between ships for a change of scenery. Granted, most people didn't have that option and if they did, you could only go from bad to worse, but at least it was different. Voyager has the same crew of roughly one hundred seventy five people, on one small ship only a few decks big. This same monotany day in, day out, same people, same setting, same everything. If thats not enough to make somebody drink a cup of engine lubricant, I don't know what is.

Then,there has to be the hope factor. Voyager watched chance after chance to get home go by, but they never seemed to pull it off. The "oh well, we'll get 'em next time" attitude would only realistically last a couple of times, because in all honesty, without plot power how many "toss you across the galaxy right where you want to go" situations do you run into? I'd have seen people start giving up around season three, and either asking to be put off the ship, or just offing themselves.

[SomosFuga]

Well, they have the reset button, if the ship gets as good as new every week, why not the crew. Plus, IIRC they were getting closer to home faster than they originally expected.

Even more, as GK mentioned, conditions in VOY weren't that bad. SF ships of that era are quite comfortable, they have individual rooms and bathrooms, they have holodecks, they probably have access to every piece of music, literature, movies, videogames,etc from all the federation and beyond. Energy and food were never an issue, i mean, they mentioned a couple of times but that's about all. Danger, of course, they were in unknow space aboard a relatively small ship (for SF standars) and without backup but they were faster and/or more advanced that most threats they met.

Don't get me wrong, i think the psychological aspect in VOY was severely underutilized but to compare it with BSG is a little bit exaggerated.

[McAvoy]

I always thought that if Voyager started to fall apart from damage like it should have done instead of the reset button, that the crew would definitely be more at edge even with Starfleet. The ship is constantly in pristine order with nearly working holodecks and always fed. But what if the ship was damaged enough that holodecks were out, they are on food rations or none at all, crusing at Warp 4 because the nacelles are damaged, and crewmembers have double or triple up because other crew quarters were destroyed in some attack? Yeah, I could see people offing themselves off or giving into hopelessness and want to get off the ship.