Season of the Witch

[SolkaTruesilver]

I went to see that movie yesterday. I wasn't expecting much, but I had quite a lot of fun in seeing it. The atmosphere depicted in that movie is exactly the kind of general feeling I'd try to create in any Warhammer Fantasy game: harsh basic medieval setting with just a tad of surnatural, all mixed and mingle in religious terror and guidance.

Nicolas Cage was... okay. His main buddy (played by an actor I just can't remember the name; the actor played Hellboy) was perfect for the protagonist' main friend and competent comic relief. I REALLY liked the fact that they didn't killed him just to inspire Cage for revenge.

The main antagonist was... creepy. I really liked it.

Ultimately, a fun movie that I probably won't go watch again, but I don't regret the money I spent on.


There is one thing that bugs me, however. It's not movie-specific, it's more of a general feeling when the classic trope comes up in tales and movies: the ritual meant to banish witches. Apparently, you have to read up the words exactly as they have been written, in latin. The book is named "The Key of Solomon". What I wonder is:

- Who came up with that ritual? Was there someone holding down a witch with a priest trying all the word combination possible? Who wrote that ritual? Who decided that "X is the best thing to do to banish a witch"?
- Why in Latin? Have the romans much experience in banishing witches and other surnatural entities? Was the book of ancient knowledge that the church translated? If so, why are the words working in Latin if they were meant to work in the original language? (if it had been written by Solomon, wouldn't it be in Hebrew?).

I know, these tropes usually come up in classic medieval-era tales, and the usual wisdom is "don't think too much about it". It's still something that bugs me.

[Mikey]

#1 - Ron Perlman.

#2 - Latin is the ecclesiastical language of the Catholic Church, which is traditionally the only church to codify rituals for exorcisms, etc.; it is also the church which published the Malleus Maleficarum. On a more mundane note, it is also the most familiar dead language to Western audiences, giving it an air of antiquity.

[SolkaTruesilver]

No, I understand why it's Latin depicted in the stories involved, for the very reason you just mentionned.

I just have a hard time understanding, if you accept that "Latin is the Sacred Language", how they came up with the rituals in the first place. I doubt the scientific methodology was applied.

"Okay... we need two witches, and some non-witches as reference group in order to test the effectiveness of our new Exorcism Ritual"

Or were the rituals pulled out of someone's arse?

[Vic]

Do it the old fashioned way, "okay, try this......didn't work, okay then try this." There was a way to find things out before the scientific method came along.

[Mikey]

Or were the rituals pulled out of someone's arse?

Well, of course they were. If you accept the fact of demonology, possession, and magick, then why should it be any less easy to accept the knowledge of incantations used in the protocols of same?

[Tyyr]

Most of the time when I've seen someone try to explain it they either go with someone being possessed and coming back with first hand recon, or someone who studied the dark arts too much, talked to one too many demons and learned their secrets. No real explanation why a demon would tell you how to banish it though.

[SolkaTruesilver]

Most of the time when I've seen someone try to explain it they either go with someone being possessed and coming back with first hand recon, or someone who studied the dark arts too much, talked to one too many demons and learned their secrets. No real explanation why a demon would tell you how to banish it though.

Or how the Church came into possession (pun intended) of the book. Or why the Church would trust these arcane knowledge to use against demons.

I guess the alternative is that some Saints have received instruction from the Heavens about how to banish these foes. Or maybe the fact that the Saints wrote the ritual makes it true? (Clap your hands if you believe, anyone?)

[Mikey]

No real explanation why a demon would tell you how to banish it though.

Obviously for the same reason that the bad guy explains in detail the inner workings of his scheme to James Bond.

someone being possessed and coming back with first hand recon

So, either the Illuminati or the Exorcists chapter?

Or why the Church would trust these arcane knowledge to use against demons.

The Church would be considered, by both itself and the laity, as the authority and front-line in combatting demons, possession, et. al.

[Mark]

Here's a mindbender for you. If the witch didn't understand latin.....would it still work?

Also, if you had a Jewish Vampire, would a cross hold him at bay, or would you need a Star of David?

[Tsukiyumi]

Also, if you had a Jewish Vampire, would a cross hold him at bay, or would you need a Star of David?

I've wondered that one before myself.

What happens when you run into an atheist vampire?

[Reliant121]

Throw the chemical formula for lead at him?

[Mikey]

Here's a mindbender for you. If the witch didn't understand latin.....would it still work?

Also, if you had a Jewish Vampire, would a cross hold him at bay, or would you need a Star of David?

svet gornisht helfen.

Jewish men can't become vampires. Their mothers won't let them.

atheist vampire

You still hold up a cross. It won't stop them per se, but it will cause them to begin an interminable debate instead of attacking.

[Mark]

That gets a double

[Sonic Glitch]

Going to see it Thursday with my girlfriend. It looks like a decent film -- or at least not nearly as bad as the dreck Hollywood often produces.