Fighter or Fodder?

Post by **Teaos** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:19 pm

Ok so this has been mentioned in passing in a few threads now.

What is your opinion on fighters (The spaceships not people who fight) in the Federation?

Are they useless canon fodder as they are unable to do damage to any but the weakest ships.

Or are they a vital part of a fleet.

I think they have a vital roll in fleet action and could be useful to have two or three of them stationed at a colony.

For the colonies they would be low maintenance and easy to run. While they wouldn't do much against a proper assault against pirates and raiders and maybe a Bird of pray (The small ones) they could be very handy.

For fleet action they are useful in engaging the smaller fighters of the enemy (Dominion bug fighters) that could other wise engage the capital ships. They also can work in groups to distract larger ships and possibly to damage to some of the smaller ones like the Galor.

Whilst working in with larger capital ships they could also be very handy in "Finishing off" an enemy ship that has had shields knocked out by the larger ship that can then move on to others while the fighter finish it off.

Over all as stand alone ships they are pretty weak and useless but in certain rolls I think they can be quite useful.

Post by **Mikey** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:10 pm

I may be about to repeat some things from my opinions on the Prometheus-class discussion, but here goes.

Useful as monitoring and picket vehicles for limited ops, but not for semi-permanent mission - they just don't have the duration or accomodate the pilot well enough. In other words, great for serving as "outriders" for convoys, acting as pickets for VIP's in transit, etc., but not for fixed bases or long term missions.

In a similar vein, that might make decent interceptors against pirates and similat threats, but not patrol ships - again they can't stay aloft long enough to patrol effectively.

As far as supporting fleet actions - yes. Definitely. Absolutely. 110%. I won't rehash my pro-Prometheus arguments, but I have definitely come out in favor of forcing an enemy bogey to split it's fire, as well as being able to fire on a bogey from multiple quarters.

Post by **Teaos** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:23 pm

Yeah the most I can see the fighter lasting for is 24 hours due to pilot fatigue. Maybe 48 hours but thats really pushing it.

Deepcrush · Post by **Deepcrush** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:32 pm

Like modern day warfare, a single fighter isn't much but given even a small payload of PT's then they could mass enough fire to cause harm.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:56 pm

If used inteligently they could be a great asset. Shove a half dozen PTs on the hull, when they get close enough they bomb the hell out of whatever cap ship is nearby.
Say we have twenty of them versus a Vor'cha class cruiser.
Said cruiser has 15 guns (taken from DITL) that could maybe be used against such a small target. Assuming that all guns score a kill, there are still five bombers left. If they all fire 2 torps then that is ten photon torpedos. Quite an impressive bit of power.
Used in fleet actions in large numbers, or for planetary attack/defence, they could be very effective ships.

Post by **Mikey** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:16 pm

I forgot another aspect in which they could prove VERY useful - and so did Starfleet. Assuming, from AR-558 et. al., that planetside/ground action is necessary (or at least unavoidable,) atmospheric operations for fighter craft can very easily sway the tide of battle - by helping to secure "beachheads" or bases of operation, as well as for support of current infantry ops.

Aside from the ridiculous LACK of tactics shown by both sides at AR-558, how quickly would the Feds have steamrolled the Jem'Hadar with a flight of fighters ripping up the Dominion position in advance?

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:18 pm

Forget a flight of fighters, a GPMG could have ended that conflict in minutes, wth almost zero casualties.

Deepcrush · Post by **Deepcrush** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:28 pm

Also remember that is doesn't have to be the fighters that draw the fire. One destroyer could attack a large cruiser and then have a wing of fighters behind him. The destroyer breaks off after one pass and the fighters would not be up close where targeting is more difficult because of the firing arcs and how fast the fighters would be moving between them.

sunnyside · Post by **sunnyside** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:11 pm

I figure that the utility of fighters depends on variables we don't know. Specifically how many fighters can you churn out instead of, say, a steamrunner or defiant. And can they be easily built by planets that can't build larger ships or somehow contribute their resources effectively to building bigger ships elsewhere.

If the later is true they'd be useful in fleet, police, and planetary defense actions in a "smoke 'em if you got 'em" sort of way at the least.

If the former is favorable I could see fielding the things just to give you an edge in combat. I don't think that you can just divide the mass of a larger ship by the mass of the fighter to see how many you could make though. The reason being that things like hull plating are probably just cranked out from a huge replicator from bulk materials. Value is instead in terms of unreplicable/generatable stuff (i.e. dilithium), and stuff that requires a lot of energy to create (i.e. antimatter).

Note that to date I don't believe the fighters can fire full on photon torpedos. They instead have various kinds of mini torpedos. So they're less like torpedo boats and more like wasps that could swarm a large target with lots of little stings.

I don't think they'd see a lot of use in peacetime though. Simply because a bigger ship might be able to scare a different target off, or at least have the shields to not take any casualties in a fight. With fighters if it comes down to a scrape you're bound to lose a few people.

Deepcrush · Post by **Deepcrush** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:15 pm

The fighters don't really launch the PTs as the just kind of let go of them in the general direction of an enemy ship once they feel they are close enough that they will hit.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:17 pm

I was thinking of a way similar to torpedo bombers from WW2.

Granitehewer · Post by **Granitehewer** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:17 pm

like the fairy swordfish almost

Deepcrush · Post by **Deepcrush** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:20 pm

Remembe in TNG the maquis got a hold of PT's but could only "carry them" and were forced to use them in close combat. A small tracker beam would be enough to get it going and the fighters speed would do the rest once its off the rack. But as a general muntition i agree that MPT's would be used. But those can still do some harm if you have enough of them.

sunnyside · Post by **sunnyside** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:22 pm

Deepcrush wrote:The fighters don't really launch the PTs as the just kind of let go of them in the general direction of an enemy ship.

Did that ever show up somewhere cannon? My distinct impression from everything I've seen/read is that photon torpedos require a decently sized launcher to energize and get them going. You can't just open up a cargo bay and launch a hundred of the things.

Edit: Wow ninja'd

Deepcrush · Post by **Deepcrush** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:24 pm

But the maquis raiders are known to have carried them, and they don't have launchers. So how did they use them against that galor if they couldn't drop them or shoot them? The launcher gives them speed and targeting but when your only a few hundred meters away it doesn't matter.