What if the Lakota-type had been approved for production?

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

How'd the Dominion War go if all Excelsior-class ships had been refitted, retrofitted, and built to the Lakota-type standard? Would it have been an easier war?

[Mikey]

Of course it would. But the odds of being able to do that, plus still keep up production on enough other ships to maintain the war effort, plus repair/replace attrition, are virtually nil.

[McAvoy]

Well if they could. I could imagine the war would have taken a different path. Dominion going on the defensive a little earlier and maybe early losses Starfleet had wouldn't have been so bad.

I mean, the Lakota is as powerful as a Galaxy and considering how many Excelsiors we have seen, it would basically be like having a fleet of Galaxys.

[Aaron]

Of course it would. But the odds of being able to do that, plus still keep up production on enough other ships to maintain the war effort, plus repair/replace attrition, are virtually nil.

Indeed, it'd actually hurt things. They need these ships on the front lines and pulling them back to refit (for an unknown amount of time) is cutting heavily into their combat power. Better to just crank out new ships.

[McAvoy]

I agree. The Federation has never really shown to have an industrial base to produce more ships than there were being lost. Take for example the US Navy in WW2. They produced a total of 10 fast battleships, 2 large cruisers, a hundred escort carriers, 24 Essex class carriers, hundreds of destroyers, and still have enough to rebuild other ships. Nearly all the old and slow battleships the US Navy recieved large refits. The Enterprise CV-6 and the Saratoga as well. Those are just the big ships.

The only way I can see this is if the Lakota appeared a good four or five years before it did and Starfleet wasted no time in the refit. In addition that Starfleet built more docks and more manpower to accomplish this as well.

But assuming that some way they did do this, then yes a fleet of Lakotas would hurt the Dominion badly.

[Sionnach Glic]

Aye, far better to simply keep building newer ships than old, upgraded ones.

[Teaos]

Agreed, a pointless decision. Build newer better.

[Deepcrush]

With as much as I love the Excelsior, its just not worth it. There was only a single point it the war that the refit would have made sense and that was during the cease fire. That lasted for several months and would have been perfect for the Excelsior crews to make the refits on their own. However, as had been said. When combat is on going you need every ship you can get on the front lines to the front lines.

[Captain Seafort]

I agree. The Federation has never really shown to have an industrial base to produce more ships than there were being lost.

Indeed, they expected to take a year to get the fleet back up to strength, and that was only forty ships over and above normal wastage.

Nearly all the old and slow battleships the US Navy recieved large refits. The Enterprise CV-6 and the Saratoga as well.

I've never seen anything about either the Big E or the Sara being refitted, other than to repair damage. Certainly nothing on the scale of the Californias, for example.

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

I've never seen anything about either the Big E or the Sara being refitted, other than to repair damage. Certainly nothing on the scale of the Californias, for example.

In 1943, the Big E got a MAJOR refit. Old anti-air guns replaced with the new Bofors, more Five Inchers added, and of course new planes like the F6F Hellcat, F4U Corsair, TBF Avenger, and SBSC Helldiver.

[Reliant121]

Planes are relatively trivial to put on really. The guns are more difficult, but what we are talking about isnt a retrofit of fighters or weapons. It's an entire structural refit. If you have the original Excelsior subtype, refitting it to a Lakota (with the built up deflector, different nacelles etc.) it would have taken masses of time.

[Captain Seafort]

In 1943, the Big E got a MAJOR refit. Old anti-air guns replaced with the new Bofors, more Five Inchers added, and of course new planes like the F6F Hellcat, F4U Corsair, TBF Avenger, and SBSC Helldiver.

Having a few extra guns added and taking on some new aircraft does not constitute a major refit. Having everything above the main armoured deck except the turrets completely rebuilt does.

[Captain Seafort]

Planes are relatively trivial to put on really. The guns are more difficult, but what we are talking about isnt a retrofit of fighters or weapons. It's an entire structural refit. If you have the original Excelsior subtype, refitting it to a Lakota (with the built up deflector, different nacelles etc.) it would have taken masses of time.

It would have been a major rebuild, but not for the reasons you suggest. The Lakota could have been an E-B subtype to start with. what would have taken time would have been gutting the ship and then rebuilding her for the new torp launchers and power feeds for the phasers.

[Reliant121]

Were all of the Excelsiors updated to the Ent-B type? I thought there was an Excelsior in the series somewhere that was still the original subtype, although i may be wrong.

[Captain Seafort]

Were all of the Excelsiors updated to the Ent-B type? I thought there was an Excelsior in the series somewhere that was still the original subtype, although i may be wrong.

The only E-B subtypes we've ever seen are the E-B herself and the Lakota. I'm simply pointing out that we can't assume her original hull was that of a bog-standard Ex.