Dominion and cloaks

[Captain Picard's Hair]

Something odd just occurred to me (not sure if it's been brought up before) - the jem'Hadar are known to have the ability to "shroud," which is more or less a personal cloak. However, the Dominion has never been seen exhibiting the tech on their warships. It gets a bit odder in light of the fact that the Jem'Hadar are not naturally evolved creatures but rather the product of Dominion engineering, so we may presume to take the shroud as evidence of Dominion technology.

[Teaos]

Well there are two options:

1) They have the technology but choose not to use it... maybe they just like intimidating people to much to hide.

2) They just dont have the tech to cloak a whole ship.

[Mikey]

Is the Jem'hadar "shroud" technological, or biological? If the latter, then it's easy to say that teh Founders' bio-engineering ability outstrips their technological ability.

1) They have the technology but choose not to use it... maybe they just like intimidating people to much to hide.

Considering the Dominion's attitude in general, I could see this as a significant factor also.

[Tsukiyumi]

I think the ability to appear out of nowhere is pretty intimidating.

[Sionnach Glic]

Aye, one of the Dominion Battleships suddenly appearing behind me would freak me out a lot more than seeing it approach from a long distance away.

I'd say the Jem'hadar's abilities are natural, and that they've no idea how to manufacture ship-sized cloaks.

[Captain Picard's Hair]

Aye, one of the Dominion Battleships suddenly appearing behind me would freak me out a lot more than seeing it approach from a long distance away.

I'd say the Jem'hadar's abilities are natural, and that they've no idea how to manufacture ship-sized cloaks.

But, as I indicated, the Jem'Hadar are not a "naturally" evolved species - rather engineered by the Dominion.

[Lighthawk]

Didn't they have to stand still to use their personal cloak? Maybe their cloaking tech wasn't really cloaking, the bending of light around an object, but active camoflague, a smart system that projected an image of whatever is behind the object being hidden on it's opposite side to give the illusion of being invisible. Such a system could be overloaded if the object being hidden moved faster than it could process the info, hence the Jem'hadar needing to stand still. They might have figured it to be impractical for ship use, given that ships don't normally just sit around motionless.

There was also that episode where the DS9 crew worked with a jem'hadar group against a rogue element, and they ran some training together. During which it was shown that a tricorder could pierce the shroud, if not pin point the exact location. If a tricorder can beat the system, whether it's cloak or just active camo, it would seem that a ship's much more powerful sensors would be able to defeat it easily.

[Mikey]

But, as I indicated, the Jem'Hadar are not a "naturally" evolved species - rather engineered by the Dominion.

True - but all that andvancement in genetic engineering and physiological fiddling-around doesn't mean a rat's ass when trying to apply that to a mechanical spaceship.

Didn't they have to stand still to use their personal cloak?

No, I don't think so.

[Sionnach Glic]

Aye, one of the Dominion Battleships suddenly appearing behind me would freak me out a lot more than seeing it approach from a long distance away.

I'd say the Jem'hadar's abilities are natural, and that they've no idea how to manufacture ship-sized cloaks.

But, as I indicated, the Jem'Hadar are not a "naturally" evolved species - rather engineered by the Dominion.

Quite right. When I said "natural" I meant "as part of the Jem'hadar's natural abilities as an engineered species"

[Captain Picard's Hair]

Oh, I see, Rochey.

If the shroud can indeed be penetrated by the tricorder (far less powerful than a ship's sensors) this would indicate also that this tech is far less sophisticated than the "current" gen of Romulan/Klingon cloaks whether biological or not and regardless of scale. This would make scaling it up to a warship pointless without much more development.

This last point is also significant in the sense that the Romulan/Klingon cloaks have been demonstrated to have been in an arms race against rivals' sensor tech; the Dominion may not have evolved in a similar environment, and in any case, they lack the benefit of all those decades of competitiveness in cloak/anti-cloak tech.

[Tsukiyumi]

...they lack the benefit of all those decades of competitiveness in cloak/anti-cloak tech.

Weren't they able to penetrate most cloaking devices?

[Mikey]

...they lack the benefit of all those decades of competitiveness in cloak/anti-cloak tech.

Weren't they able to penetrate most cloaking devices?

Not consistently, and not accurately enough to make cloaks ineffectual. Also, they had to at least know that a cloaked ship was presented in order to even attempt to penetrate the cloak.

[Granitehewer]

surely post wylb, the dominion may start using cloaks based on experience and breen technology?

[Deepcrush]

The Breen are against the wall now. The Dominion is crushed. The Cardassian Union is cinder.

The beating that they took should be enough to make them notice that what they have now isn't enough. Of course I see the CU joining the UFP real quick. If only to get away from the KE. Not to sure about the Breen.

[Mikey]

surely post wylb, the dominion may start using cloaks based on experience and breen technology?

Kind of an academic point after the war. There was nobody to cloak from in the GQ, and the Founders were staying out of the AQ and BQ.