Dominion War Refit Galaxy-class vs Negh'var-class Cruiser

[Atekimogus]

The Negh'var wasn't meant to do anything but move those big guns around for use against heavy targets. While the Negh may not be as big as the GCS, her guns out class anything we've seen.

I agree altough their usefulness against heavy targets - as you said - could indeed be the crux of the matter. Does the GCS classifiy as heavy target? What I mean is that during a rather long engagment we see her only once firing the two main cannons which seems odd, why sacrificing a lot of the smaller ships if you could prevent it by just firing two, three, four times.

So maybe they have aweful long recharge times or other limitations which makes them mainly useful against stationary or semi-stationary targets. Sure, if they got a lucky shot it is over.

From all the fleets the Klingons have probably the most practical approach to war which is as it should be. So they have rather specialized ships and for ship to ship battles they already have the excellent vorcha's and bird of prey variants but they lack a heavy hitter against stations etc. This role would be filled by the Negh'vars and since their job is to bring down stations and ships far larger as themselves they might have problems facing a contemporary opponent of a similar tonnage alone.

[Sionnach Glic]

The GCS is poorly designed for quick maneuvers, with the big saucer out front and the nacelles in back. If anything it'd be a pig to turn.

There's also the fact that the impulse engines are along the centreline of the ship, meaning they have to exert more force to turn it.

[Reliant121]

Re: Atekimogs


Unfortunately that leaves a gap for ships to take on Battleships. If the Negh'Var is a anti-stationary vessel, then taking something like a Galaxy might prove a challenge. Next down is the Vor'Cha, which, IIRC, is not even a match for a Nebula.

[Atekimogus]

Ah, but that is the beauty of it. They send not a battleship to fight a battleship but one or two vorcha's with a small wing of bird of prey as support. Sure they loose maybe one or two easy replacable ships but in the end if you compare ressources they still come out on top.

And for those battle were the casualties among small ships would be to great - for example against starbases - they send in the Negh'vars.

I imagine it a bit like the battle in Yesterdays Enterprise. They attack a galaxy with three cruiser-type ships each one inferior to the E-D but in the end they loose one ship, have probably damage on the other two but the UFP looses one whole Galaxy Class Ship.

Since the Klingon Empire doesn't seem to have the ressources of the UFP a battleship design could well be viewed wasteful and ineffecient.

[Reliant121]

A battleship will almost never be alone (or at least it shouldn't be). In the DW, we saw Galaxy's with many support ships, which could easily stop that flotilla before it even comes into range of the Galaxy, leaving the GCS to just pick them off. Admittedly, one on one, you could beat it, but in a full scale battle the counter for a battleship is always a battleship, because, while that little formation you devised is battling a Galaxy, oh look...a pair of Nebula's and a trio of Defiant's has just flanked them.

[Tyyr]

The GCS is poorly designed for quick maneuvers, with the big saucer out front and the nacelles in back. If anything it'd be a pig to turn.

There's also the fact that the impulse engines are along the centreline of the ship, meaning they have to exert more force to turn it.

Yeah, you'd be hard pressed to design a worse ship to maneuver.

[Atekimogus]

Well I wouldn't call an accumulation of vorchas and bird of preys a flotillia. I am not even sure you can speak of spaceships in old naval terms with a battleship so powerful that is more or less invincible with exception to other battleships.

Maybe we should first agree on a system which clarifys what ships we call battleships, cruiser, destroyers etc because this is by all means not clear.
Let me give you an example. Would you call the GCS a battleship? Sure we have treated her as such. It is the largest ship of the UFP so it seems logical that she is a battleship. Now we make a saucer seperation and view only the battlesection. We loose maybe 10-20% combat-power - if we loose anything at all - and suddenly the GCS is much smaller than a nebula, akira and about the same size as the Excelsior. Still a battleship? So size or tonnage seems to be a rather poor measurment.

I think the system in use for classification of the ships is strictly by their potential energy output hence why a small defiant-class still rates warship. Now let as assume - just an example - that the vorcha has about 60-70% the energy output of a GCS and a BoP has about 20-30%. Combined with the added flexibility of having two ships I would say they have a slight tactical advantage.

Adding ships to the equation does not change much imho.

[Deepcrush]

A battleship is the Most powerful class of ship in a races fleet. GCS/Sov for the UFP. Negh'var for the Klingons. D'D for the RSE. Dominion Battleship for the Dominion (its a give away really). The Keldon for the CU.

[Reliant121]

Besides, and pray I dont reignite an age old debate, the Defiant may have been a full scale warship in ENERGY OUTPUT, but starfleet still called her an Escort, even if it was purely to hide her true nature. That is however her official designation.

[Mikey]

I'd say you're both right. Deep gives an absolute definition, which may be technically correct but isn't at all helpful in comparing two different cultures. A Keldon may be a battleship to the Cardies, but it would be (at best) a cruiser to the Klingons or the UFP.

Calling the Defiant an Escort (as in Destroyer-Escort) speaks more to the available top-end, range, and usage of the craft.

[Deepcrush]

I'd say you're both right. Deep gives an absolute definition, which may be technically correct but isn't at all helpful in comparing two different cultures. A Keldon may be a battleship to the Cardies, but it would be (at best) a cruiser to the Klingons or the UFP.

True. But where would we start on a base standard?

Calling the Defiant an Escort (as in Destroyer-Escort) speaks more to the available top-end, range, and usage of the craft.

Agreed.

[Sionnach Glic]

Yeah, you'd be hard pressed to design a worse ship.

Edited for accuracy.

[Atekimogus]

I'd say you're both right. Deep gives an absolute definition, which may be technically correct but isn't at all helpful in comparing two different cultures. A Keldon may be a battleship to the Cardies, but it would be (at best) a cruiser to the Klingons or the UFP.

True. But where would we start on a base standard?

Good question. I think there is to much inconsistancy between ship classes to ever arrive at a satisfying system.

[McAvoy]

We have seen the Galaxy move around in the fleet and even the E-D has shown a impressive turning radius. I am inclined to believe that the Galaxy class is tad bit more manueverable than we give her credit for. I really can't guess how manueverable the Negh'Var is since all we have seen her do is stay still, decloak, and tilt down a bit.

So I am leaning on the Neigh'Var just because the impressive firepower she did on DS9. The best we have seen the Galaxy do is fire ten torpedoes in a second (which isn't bad).

EDIT: We did see two Neigh'Var look-a-likes take on a super duper Enterprise before. Just saying....

[Praeothmin]

As McAvoy said, we've seen some nice maneuvering from the GCS on many occasions.

In TNG, we've seen the GCS do a 180 in tight arcs on more then one occasion (encounter at Farpoint, BoBW part II, etc...), so it seems almost as maneuverable as the Neb.

In DS9, we've seen two GCS do a strafing run with a pretty tight turn against a Galor in one of the fleet engagements ("Sacrifice of Angels" I think).

It's Impulse Engines' "bad" emplacement don't seem to cause to much maneuvering issues...