Type 108 Frigate

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Type 108 Frigate

Post by Graham Kennedy »

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The Type 108 is in many ways the mainstay and workhorse of the Areldeni fleet. The ship is typical of Areldeni design philosophy; a twin hull midspace design which makes up - or at least, attempts to make up - for the less sophisticated technology level by using larger, more powerful versions of the older technology. The ship is fitted with the same Mark 7.8 AMP cannon as the Type 47 Destroyer, though they are in single turrets rather than the turrets of the 47. With seven cannon mounted, the AMP firepower is somewhat inferior to modern Coalition frigates. Firing arcs are generally excellent; the 108 can fire 71% of its heavy cannon forward, 29% aft, 100% on each beam, 43% in the dorsal arc, 57% in the ventral arc.

The torpedo stowage is unusual in that the launchers are single shot external tubes, rather than the more conventional reloadable tubes fed by a magazine. The Type 108 carries 24 torpedoes in these launchers, arranged in six quad pack launchers. It is unclear why the Areldeni resorted to this design feature, though cost is usually blamed; having single shot external launchers does allow the hull size to be greatly reduced, and would likely lead to a significant cost saving. Another possibility is rate of fire; whilst a Coalition Frigate is limited to firing three torpedoes at a time, a Type 108 could likely fire most or all of its torpedo complement almost simultaneously.

Twenty four CIWS are fitted for close in defence.

In comparison to Coalition Frigates the Type 108 is larger, slower, less agile, has a weaker AMP armament, more powerful but slower and shorter ranged torpedoes, less range and endurance. As with many Areldeni designs, the shield and armour fitting is unknown, at least officially.
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Re: Type 108 Frigate

Post by Mikey »

I think you very well avoided one of your personal bugbears with this one; that is, it doesn't look exactly like a mini-cruiser or destroyer, although the shared design philosophy is very evident.

BTW, do you have a reason in mind for the Areldeni ships having numerical designations rather than class names? And are individual ships named?
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Re: Type 108 Frigate

Post by Tsukiyumi »

Mikey wrote:BTW, do you have a reason in mind for the Areldeni ships having numerical designations rather than class names?
I just figured these are the Coalition designations for them.
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Re: Type 108 Frigate

Post by Graham Kennedy »

Indeed, those are the Coalition designations for the ship classes.

I dunno what the Areldeni would call them. It's a little bit of their culture I haven't got in my head. :)
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Re: Type 108 Frigate

Post by Mikey »

I just got an image of a Coalition code-breaker finally getting the transmission he needed and deciphering the ship names.

"Let's see... they call the battleship the 'big ship,' and the destroyer the 'medium ship,' and the frigate the 'smaller ship...'"
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Re: Type 108 Frigate

Post by Graham Kennedy »

Mikey wrote:I just got an image of a Coalition code-breaker finally getting the transmission he needed and deciphering the ship names.

"Let's see... they call the battleship the 'big ship,' and the destroyer the 'medium ship,' and the frigate the 'smaller ship...'"
Lol, that's not bad at all. :)
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Re: Type 108 Frigate

Post by Captain Seafort »

Those torp launchers are reminiscent of the big Long Lance box launchers the Japanese used - very nice. :) Looking at the arrangement, they're fixed-axis - are there any smaller ships, with single launcher packs, that can rotate them to fire on either beam.

Also, is there any particular designation system the Coalition uses for these ships? The numbers are increasing as the size decreases. Is that part of a system, or simply an indication of there being more classes of the smaller ships (I.e. they started with the Type 1 battleship, type 1 destroyer, type 1 frigate, etc, and counted upwards in each series as new designs were observed)?
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Re: Type 108 Frigate

Post by Sionnach Glic »

Pretty cool. :)
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Re: Type 108 Frigate

Post by Graham Kennedy »

The inspiration for this class was the Slava class cruiser :

Image

I wanted to make the design a little different by making the torpedoes more visible on the exterior.

There's no need to fire torpedoes in any particular direction; a torpedo is not a straight line weapon, it's perfectly capable of turning heading off on any bearing. Torps are long range weapons, with the better ones essentially miniature robotic spaceships in their own right. Think something more like a sensible version of the Cardassian Dreadnought design than the kind of "point-shoot-bang" model photon torpedo. A good high end torpedo has shields, jammers, decoys, submunitions, and its own cannon for engaging fighters as they try to shoot it down, plus a very sophisticated (but NOT intelligent) computer to run it all.

Designations, I was thinking that they have slots reserved according to the size of the ships. So something like Battleships and Cruisers are in the 1-39 range, Destroyers in the 40 - 99 range, Frigates in the 100 - 149 range, Corvettes and light patrol craft in the 150+ range, that kind of thing. Within each range it's in order of being observed in service.
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Re: Type 108 Frigate

Post by Mikey »

GrahamKennedy wrote:
Mikey wrote:I just got an image of a Coalition code-breaker finally getting the transmission he needed and deciphering the ship names.

"Let's see... they call the battleship the 'big ship,' and the destroyer the 'medium ship,' and the frigate the 'smaller ship...'"
Lol, that's not bad at all. :)
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Re: Type 108 Frigate

Post by MetalHead »

Another interesting design, this one especially just goes for bigger is better, and it looks like it bit the areldeni in the foot, based on what you said and what you have posted in the past, this vessel is really more of a token frigate, its there because they need something to fill the role of a frigate!

One thing randomly I'm wondering, is just how heavy up the weight class does a ship have to be before attacking it with fighters becomes a very bad idea? I can imagine this ship being swarmed by coalition fighters and turning that hull connector into cheese.
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Re: Type 108 Frigate

Post by Graham Kennedy »

No one ship is truly invulnerable to attack by subships as such, it's more a matter of how much firepower it would take, and how many fighter losses you could expect to take in doing it.

This is going to involve lots of numbers and math, I'm afraid...

Let's take the example of an attack by Coalition attack craft on a Coalition capital ship.

Assume the Massacre class is being used. The heaviest weapon they can tote is the Type 26 drift bomb, which has a yield of 2.45x10^21 Joules.

Now take a Kororra class battleship. It has a defensive shield capable of absorbing 7.55x10^24 Joules. Therefore you need to hit it with 3,082 Type 26s to overwhelm the shields. One Massacre can carry two Type 26s, so you need 1,541 of them to survive the attack long enough to hit the target.

The Massacre attacks at full throttle, doing the bomb run at 400,000 x c. The bomb flies the Midspace equivalent of a ballistic trajectory after launch, decelerating rapidly (hence the term "drift bomb"). A Type 26 will decelerate for 12 seconds before hitting the speed of light and dropping out of Midspace. In that time it covers 665 light hours, the theoretical maximum range of the weapon.

Now the Kororra isn't just sitting there during all this. It's armed with 228 Mark 2 AMP cannon for defence from these types of attacks; one half of them can fire on either beam (the ship would always turn to put the beam to an attack like this). The Mark 2 has a range of 4,009 light hours, so to get within range the Massacres have to traverse 3,344 light hours. At 400,000 xc, that's a flight of 30 seconds under full fire.

Now the Type 2 has a rate of fire of 24 rpm, so in 30 seconds 114 of them will fire 1,368 rounds. The turrets are twinned, so the 1,368 rounds can hit 684 targets in that time.

And then, of course, the Massacres have to turn around and escape, doing basically the same thing in reverse and taking another 684 hits, for 1,368 in total.

The upshot of all this is, if you want to take down the shields of a Kororra class battleship using Massacre class attack craft, you need to send a minimum of 2,225 of them. You can expect to lose 684 on the way in, and 684 on the way out again, allowing 857 of them to return. A loss rate of 60%. And, incidentally, although a major battleship has a fighter complement in the high thousands, not too many of them are Massacres. The others either carry a lighter offensive load or are defensive or escort fighters. It would take the Massacres and lighter attack craft together to mount enough firepower to overwhelm the shields. So a single battleship would struggle to even mount a raid like this, theoretically.

Then there's factors that will push those numbers in all sorts of directions. For one, the Mark 2 isn't 100% accurate by any means. It's gonna miss some of the time. But then the Type 26 and lighter weapons aren't perfectly accurate either. Electronic warfare systems will further degrade capabilities on both sides. And remember those defensive fighters I mentioned above, which would inflict attrition of their own on an attacking group - potentially more than the battleship's own AMP cannon. And nowdays long range escort fighters would accompany the attack group to try and stop that in turn. And bear in mind that this attack is simple to bring down the shields; being a battleship, the Kororra has 10 metre thick exotic-material armour which would take some breaking through in itself.

The upshot of all that is, if the entire attack complement of one Kororra class battleship attacked another it would badly damage the shields but likely not completely overwhelm them, and would come back with losses of anything from 60% upwards. Potentially even close to 100%.

If two or three battleships launched a co-ordinated strike, they might be able to destroy one of their cousins. But massed strikes like that are just too damn costly to do on a regular basis. Hell, can you even imagine trying to ask the pilots to go out on missions time after time with a 70 or 80% death rate? There'd be mutiny.

Now a small ship, it's a different matter. The Coalition's Askad-Hazaline class destroyer only has 20 Mark 2s for defence, and no fighters. And 425 Mark 26 drift bombs would be enough to bring down the shields. A single massed strike from a battleships Massacre complement could take down six or eight destroyers easily. The numbers game rather tilts in the other direction for small ships.

Cruisers would be in the middle somewhere. So while attack craft would be able to prey on the likes of destroyers and frigates, attacking a cruiser would be a tough, dangerous but ultimately doable mission. Whereas attacking a battleship would be a bloodbath in an almost hopeless cause.

Hope that isn't too confusing!
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Re: Type 108 Frigate

Post by Teaos »

Not confusing at all and really interesting.

I'd hate to be a pilot of those fighter type ships.
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Re: Type 108 Frigate

Post by Graham Kennedy »

Well it's not that bad; the massive predicted casualty rates for attacks like those are described are exactly why they don't do them. And drift bombs are commonly used like dumb bombs today because they are simple and cheap (by Coalition standards). There are weapons with much greater stand off range - drift bombs with sustainer type engines attached, small torpedoes, etc. But those are far more expensive, and carry much smaller warheads to make way for the fuel, engines and such. They have their place, but the good old drift bomb isn't going anywhere just yet.
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Re: Type 108 Frigate

Post by Sionnach Glic »

Interesting concept. How easy would drift bombs be to pick up on sensors?
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