Sela and Tain getting jiggy

[Granitehewer]

Does anyone reckon that in an alt uni, with a klingon empire hostile to all other powers including the federation, that without the mediating influence of the federation and its ideals as an ally, that the klingon aggression may inadvertently enable people like sela and tain to negotiate a romulan-cardassian alliance for mutual defence as a bulwark to klingon aggression?

Afterall cardassians (through indoctrination from an early age such as ''chain of command pt2'' and fear of the obsidian order/tribunals ''tribunal'', ''second skin'') follow the state over the individual and such a joining would elevate the union considerably, such as when it joined the dominion, or the cardassian-klingon dalliance in the 'shattered mirror' universe.

[Mark]

I'm not sure that would be needed. The Klingons and Romulans encountered each other WAY before anybody ever heard of the Cardassians. I think it actually quite likely without the Federation, the Klingons would have been wiped out when Praxis exploded (who's going to help them after all?). That would leave the Romulans basically unopposed for a while, as well as removing a HUGE impedement to Cardassia. Then the Romulans and Cardassians would be at each others throats.

[Mikey]

As I mentioned to Pete, I believe it would happen - although it would have to be initiated by the Order, as the Guls of Command would be preaching about the Cardassian ideal of independent strength, and of not being tainted by alliance with an insidious alien culture. I could also see such an alliance creating a huge public outcry in Cardassia.

[Sionnach Glic]

Aye, I can see that happening.

[Mark]

The Obsidian Order and The Tal'shiar COULD never play well together. There would be so much intrigue, backstabbing, and manuvering for position, they'd end up killing each other.

[Captain Seafort]

Sounds like typical Romulan or Cardassian internal politics, and their empires seem to have held together, so why not this aliance?

[Mark]

A lack of common unity. If your convinced that your superior to someone else, why work with them? Both Romulans and Cardassians have that same superiority complex.

[colmquinn]

The obs ord + Tal S did work together for the strike on the founders home planet, I'll admit that didn't turn out too well but it showed they were capable of co-operation for a common goal, albeit for a relatively short period of time. if the klingons were considered a big enough threat/ oportunity for the combined forces of the Rom's and Cardi to conquer it might possibley work, for a time. Unlikely but the possibility is there. Lots of interesting ideas for the feds to come up against.

[Mark]

For a time, I agree....................but ultimately one would try and conquer the other.

[Granitehewer]

to people who distain this,is that the same logic that the klingons and cardassians are too opposed to form an alliance, like in the shattered mirror universes?
or the same logic that the dominion and cardassians would never ally with or more specifically the cardassians joining the dominion?

I think that in the face of a common threat, even antagonists can form new bonds, to differing degrees, if the tal shiar and obsidian can remain intact then they can police the military and thus civilians in line, especially as the cardassians at least seem to be deeply authoritarian, with even their literature and school curricula being focused on the triumph of the state and the trivialisation of individual liberty(tribunal, distant voices,chain of command part 2).

The dominion are arrogant,condescending, xenophobic and paranoid, and the klingons seem to distain almost everything in a haughty way, both these empires share these same traits as romulans and cardassians, yet there has been at least one although hinted in the dialogue more, romulan-klingon alliance (worf about khitomer ''they were supposed to be our allies!'' and we have ''the enterprise incident'' too), we also have the aforementioned klingon-cardassian alliance, the attack on the omarian nebula etc.
I see the whole thing being fermented by the security forces, possibly implicating klingons in a series of raids,assassinations,border disputes or sponsoring insurgents. Clearly this star union would not necessarily last time immorial but surely with diligent monitoring it could be sustained for a few years

[Sionnach Glic]

Why do you say that the Tal Shiar and Obsidian Order couldn't work together? By that logic, the CIA and MI6 could never work together.

[Mikey]

True. And in both cases, there is more emnity between those groups and their own military commands than between on and the other.

[Mark]

But your failing to take into consideration the nature of the two races involved.

[Sionnach Glic]

No, we're not. Both races have shown to be willing to ally with other races when doing so is in their best interests.

[Mikey]

True. In both cases, self-interest would seem to override any distaste for alien interaction.

We're also talking about organizations within each culture which value pragmatism a great deal more than prejudices.