Dominion Battleship

I Am Spartacus · Post by **I Am Spartacus** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:20 am

On the DITL page, it lists "estimated 2,000,000 troops." I can't see how that could possibly be anywhere near accurate considering the ship is only 4.8 kilometres long...

Crushproof · Post by **Crushproof** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:18 am

That seems pretty ridiculous alright. I think this should be moved to the DITL board though

Post by **Teaos** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:06 am

Why the ship is in DS9 its a good place to debate its stats.

Remember the Jem'hadar don't eat sleep or need recreation. They could be packed in there like sardines and they wouldn't care so long as it "Served the Founders".

If the galaxy has 1000 people on it and it is no where near that size I see no problem with the 2000 troops. Especially if it was designed to blast through defences and deliver troops.

They could be placed in a cargo hold sholder to sholder and so long as they got their white it wouldn't matter one bit.

Bryan Moore · Post by **Bryan Moore** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:06 am

*Dreadnaught, not battleship. But besides...

Ever been to New York? Tell me you couldn't get 2 million people in a space 4.8 km (3 mi) long, with that kind of interior volume. Especially if they're packed in tight.

4,800 x 3,235 x 1,393 = a LOT of space. Now that's not perfectly square, so the 2.16x10^9 cubic meters you'd have wouldn't be the case. But lets say that you have just 50 decks of living space for troops, put into an area 1.6km x 1.6km x .15km ... that's one square mile of living space per deck, times 50 decks... so in just 3.84x10^7 cubic meters, or less than 1/56th the first calculation.

Now, there are 8 million people living in 320 square miles in NYC, or aproximately 25,000 people/mi^. The density of the battleship would be 40,000 troops/mi^2. And truthfully, it would be concievable to double that square milage quite easily, so that 20,000 per square mile of living space is totally reasonable. These are Jem'Hadar, not your "average" people. Give them white, a spot to stand, and I'm sure some spaces to train, and you're set.

SolkaTruesilver · Post by **SolkaTruesilver** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:39 pm

Bryan Moore wrote: These are Jem'Hadar, not your "average" people. Give them white, a spot to stand, and I'm sure some spaces to train, and you're set.

I hope you protect them with proper armor, or a direct hit will have a quite high death toll...

Ever saw the similarities between the Scimitar and the Battleship?

Post by **Teaos** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:00 pm

Yeah there is a stnadard deign for the bad guys starships in trek. Its not often we get a new design. Really when you think about it there is only a few federation designs the rest are just modifictions of that design.

Bryan Moore · Post by **Bryan Moore** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 4:47 am

SolkaTruesilver wrote:
Bryan Moore wrote: These are Jem'Hadar, not your "average" people. Give them white, a spot to stand, and I'm sure some spaces to train, and you're set.
I hope you protect them with proper armor, or a direct hit will have a quite high death toll...

Sure, but look at my calculations. That's a relatively minimal chunk of ship compared to what's available. Armor notwithstanding.

Post by **Teaos** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 7:39 am

If not who cares. You can make a Jem'Hadar in a week tops. Kill a thousand and no one will blink an eye.

Bryan Moore · Post by **Bryan Moore** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 7:53 am

Teaos wrote:If not who cares. You can make a Jem'Hadar in a week tops. Kill a thousand and no one will blink an eye.

Mr. Spock wrote:Highly inconclusive, Mr. Scott, since Vorta don't have eye lids.

Wait, did I get that quote right

Point taken. But I'd imagine the battleships were pretty well armored!

I'll take it since no one shot down my math either 1) no one cares or 2) I got some mathematics right for the first time since 8th grade. :shakes fist at mathematics:

Post by **Teaos** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 8:35 am

4,800 x 3,235 x 1,393 = a LOT of space.

Well even I can do math like that

Bryan Moore · Post by **Bryan Moore** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 2:21 pm

Teaos wrote:
4,800 x 3,235 x 1,393 = a LOT of space.
Well even I can do math like that

Yeah, I crunch numbers like Data, what can I say.

SolkaTruesilver · Post by **SolkaTruesilver** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 5:19 pm

You can,t measure to Data unless you manage a FRACTAL encryption code!

(sometime, I think Data's feat is just a showoff to make the fans drool)

And, after all, Data isn't the only one capable of achieving such feats. Bashir & EMH are just as capable 8)

I Am Spartacus · Post by **I Am Spartacus** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:29 am

Bryan Moore wrote:*Dreadnaught, not battleship. But besides...

Ever been to New York? Tell me you couldn't get 2 million people in a space 4.8 km (3 mi) long, with that kind of interior volume. Especially if they're packed in tight.

4,800 x 3,235 x 1,393 = a LOT of space. Now that's not perfectly square, so the 2.16x10^9 cubic meters you'd have wouldn't be the case. But lets say that you have just 50 decks of living space for troops, put into an area 1.6km x 1.6km x .15km ... that's one square mile of living space per deck, times 50 decks... so in just 3.84x10^7 cubic meters, or less than 1/56th the first calculation.

Now, there are 8 million people living in 320 square miles in NYC, or aproximately 25,000 people/mi^. The density of the battleship would be 40,000 troops/mi^2. And truthfully, it would be concievable to double that square milage quite easily, so that 20,000 per square mile of living space is totally reasonable. These are Jem'Hadar, not your "average" people. Give them white, a spot to stand, and I'm sure some spaces to train, and you're set.

First of all, what kind of transport is this? Is it supposed to be an assault transport, capable of landing troops during an invasion? Or is it merely a conventional transport for ferrying men and equipment between waypoints?

The former seems more likely, considering the ship's absurdly heavy armament and defensive capabilities. In such a case, you'd need a tad more than just a space to stand. You'd need a space for all their equipment, which would eat up more than half the living space. You'd need space for armoured vehicles, which again takes up a lot of space. You'd need somewhere to store all that ketracel white. You'd need endless amounts of ammunition (phasers don't have unlimited capacity, after all). Etc.

One thing you neglected to mention about your false NYC analogy is that there aren't any highrise or skyscraper buildings being erected inside the belly of a Dominion Dreadnaught. If you have one square mile of space in NYC, you can cram thousands upon thousands of people into it by building a fifty story high residential building. You can't do that on a warship.

As with any military vehicle, you can't just haphazardly throw two million people in there and expect them to be able to function. There has to be order.

So no, 2 million is absurdly high. 200,000 maybe.

Transports shouldn't even be anything special in space, just a large cargo hold that just happens to have a few engines and a bridge attached.

Post by **Teaos** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:42 am

Equipment = Couple leters of white, 2 guns, ammo, extra armor.

Not a lot of space needed there. While 2 mill is high I think it could be pulled off with the Jem'Hadar but not with other species.

I Am Spartacus · Post by **I Am Spartacus** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 3:07 am

How much white does the average Jem Hadar consume in one day? For two million troops, you'd need a lot more than just a few days worth of consumption. You'd also need sufficient communications equipment for an army of that size, enough to equip and coordinate them all in battle. Sensors, battalion HQs, division HQs, right down to individual platoons. That takes a hell of a lot of space.

And then there's the armoured vehicles, which are fucking huge. So too are the specialized vehicles needed to run an army, or even the plain old fashioned vanilla trucks, which too are bulky and heavy.

Seriously, try running an army of today of two million with a few MRES, two guns, and some ammo. Ridiculous.