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I agree that SIF wont be that big of a problem but there is also the issue that many may want to run that off a different power unit aswel. I know both Seafort and Rochey have a big problem with Fed ships having a ship rely on a active system that is tied into the warp core.

The problem with your idea for more crew though is space. Although you guys will probably vote to reduce the luxury you are still left with a large portion of internal volume given over to crew - quarters, recreation, mess halls. Other things have to be added aswel. These people will need places to work and jobs to do adding work stations and other thing. Sick bay will increase in size along with other things.

I actually think it would be better to go the other way and reduce staff numbers by automating a lot of things. But I would also split the computing of the ship into several totally independent computer cores so you could take over the whole ship in one go.

Things like life support will take pi*s all of the total energy out put of the ship, I'd guess things like life support and artificil gravity and all that random stuff wouldnt even come to 5% of the total energy of a ship.

Another problem is that you have already voted once for an independent power system and its not the last time that will be an option. Every time you do that you take up more internal volume leaving less space for other things.

So far for internal volume we have the primary power unit (The warp core) taking up 20% of internal volume and the shield one taking up 7%. Over a quarter already gone. The other big uses of space are Cargo which cant drop bellow 10% at a minimum, crew space which could go anywhere from 20-40% depending on the amount of crew and their comfort level. Torpedo tubes and stock could very well take up a lot of space. Beam weapons luckly will take up very little unless we add a lance which takes up space inside the ship. Then there is the internal space for computer cores and hallways and jeffries tubes and the bridge and sensors and lots of other small things that add up.

So you can see the problem. You cant have everything. The whole point of this design process is everythign has a pro and a con. Having lots of torpedo tubes will slash space for other thing. These design process is a trade off, so far we have traded speed and agility for armour. We also seem to be trading space for more reliability. While that is good in ways it may bite us in the arse latter on when we dont have enough room for other things we may of liked.

EDIT:

While I wouldnt want endgame tech in I wouldnt mind the Phase lance since this is set in 2390 which is when the AGT-E-D was around. It also has a clear build up to it. But if we do choice to put one of the ship it would suck up a lot fo power (thus allowing us fewer other beam weapons) probably increasing the size of the core a little and taking up internal volume (again).

*Fires off random potshots at Mikey*

The Phaser lance doesn't bother me. We didn't see anything in the AGT timeline that was tech beyond belief. The phaser lance is just a phaser 'cannon' fed raw power from the warp core. The Defiant does the same thing just not as big of a scale. The E-D did the same in BoBW against the Borg with the Nav-Deflector. This would just be a progression of the same idea but 20 or 30 years in the making. As that would put us around the time of AGT it would seem to fit in just fine.

OK, I'll concede on the lance. However, to echo Teaos, we can't start ascribing independent power sources to a lot of different systems - we'd end up with separate power for everything, but no room for an actual warp core.

Teaos wrote:I agree that SIF wont be that big of a problem but there is also the issue that many may want to run that off a different power unit aswel. I know both Seafort and Rochey have a big problem with Fed ships having a ship rely on a active system that is tied into the warp core.

The problem with your idea for more crew though is space. Although you guys will probably vote to reduce the luxury you are still left with a large portion of internal volume given over to crew - quarters, recreation, mess halls. Other things have to be added aswel. These people will need places to work and jobs to do adding work stations and other thing. Sick bay will increase in size along with other things.

I actually think it would be better to go the other way and reduce staff numbers by automating a lot of things. But I would also split the computing of the ship into several totally independent computer cores so you could take over the whole ship in one go.

Things like life support will take pi*s all of the total energy out put of the ship, I'd guess things like life support and artificil gravity and all that random stuff wouldnt even come to 5% of the total energy of a ship.

Another problem is that you have already voted once for an independent power system and its not the last time that will be an option. Every time you do that you take up more internal volume leaving less space for other things.

So far for internal volume we have the primary power unit (The warp core) taking up 20% of internal volume and the shield one taking up 7%. Over a quarter already gone. The other big uses of space are Cargo which cant drop bellow 10% at a minimum, crew space which could go anywhere from 20-40% depending on the amount of crew and their comfort level. Torpedo tubes and stock could very well take up a lot of space. Beam weapons luckly will take up very little unless we add a lance which takes up space inside the ship. Then there is the internal space for computer cores and hallways and jeffries tubes and the bridge and sensors and lots of other small things that add up.

So you can see the problem. You cant have everything. The whole point of this design process is everythign has a pro and a con. Having lots of torpedo tubes will slash space for other thing. These design process is a trade off, so far we have traded speed and agility for armour. We also seem to be trading space for more reliability. While that is good in ways it may bite us in the arse latter on when we dont have enough room for other things we may of liked.

EDIT:

While I wouldnt want endgame tech in I wouldnt mind the Phase lance since this is set in 2390 which is when the AGT-E-D was around. It also has a clear build up to it. But if we do choice to put one of the ship it would suck up a lot fo power (thus allowing us fewer other beam weapons) probably increasing the size of the core a little and taking up internal volume (again).

I don't think we should worry about the phaser lance taking up space as in AGT the weapon was added to the outer hull, though be it did look armoured to me. The lance(s) for our ship space wise isn't a concern. As to crew space, bunk and rack just like a real ship. Crews survive just fine on warships now in much worse living and longer on older ships back in the sail days. If we're going to build a battleship then we need to think on it as a battleship would. Every crew wants to have big quarters and lots of dinning rooms but in truth they can just stuff to hind sides. Their jobs will have to come first and comfort last if at all. If the crew takes up anymore then 20% of the space of the ship then I would be shocked. Also we can do without the tubes and crawl spaces. There are some places that those are needed but not in the amounts that they are in say a GCS.

How much spare cargo space are you looking for on her? One or two holds and a large shuttle bay would be about it right. Just enough space for loading and off loading. Most of the internal space should be going to weapons, shields, torp storage and so on. For rec the crew can use the shuttle bay.

Deepcrush wrote: How much spare cargo space are you looking for on her? One or two holds and a large shuttle bay would be about it right. Just enough space for loading and off loading. Most of the internal space should be going to weapons, shields, torp storage and so on. For rec the crew can use the shuttle bay.

You also have to look at cargo space for consumbales, spare parts, ect.

Mikey wrote:OK, I'll concede on the lance. However, to echo Teaos, we can't start ascribing independent power sources to a lot of different systems - we'd end up with separate power for everything, but no room for an actual warp core.

Agreed, independent power is good for shields but bad if you try to do it for everything. The problem for most ships is that their WC has to do everything. It takes damage with every hit against the shields and every engine and weapon it has to power. By powering your shields from something other then the WC we can reduce the amount of back wash damage and increase the protection around the ship. Nothing else on board needs its own power source, unless we're talking about a few batteries for flash lights and hand phasers.

ChakatBlackstar wrote:

Deepcrush wrote: How much spare cargo space are you looking for on her? One or two holds and a large shuttle bay would be about it right. Just enough space for loading and off loading. Most of the internal space should be going to weapons, shields, torp storage and so on. For rec the crew can use the shuttle bay.

You also have to look at cargo space for consumbales, spare parts, ect.

Most of that is taken care of by replicators, that includes food. Spare parts that can't be replicated can be stored in either of the two cargo holds as that's what they're for.

Wow - Deep and I have been in agreement a lot lately. I feel much safer.

Agreed (again!) that we don't need the cargo space that an explorer would need for evac, mecy missions, etc.; but as Blackstar said, we do need a fair bit for parts, mission supplies, MAGAZINES, etc. Plus, at some point we'll need to think about embarked craft.

Mikey wrote:Wow - Deep and I have been in agreement a lot lately. I feel much safer.

Agreed (again!) that we don't need the cargo space that an explorer would need for evac, mecy missions, etc.; but as Blackstar said, we do need a fair bit for parts, mission supplies, MAGAZINES, etc. Plus, at some point we'll need to think about embarked craft.

Like I said though, a pair of holds and a shuttle bay would carry those needs just fine. Most everything on board can be replicated so spare parts aren't going to be a huge worry.

Deepcrush wrote:

Mikey wrote:Wow - Deep and I have been in agreement a lot lately. I feel much safer.

Agreed (again!) that we don't need the cargo space that an explorer would need for evac, mecy missions, etc.; but as Blackstar said, we do need a fair bit for parts, mission supplies, MAGAZINES, etc. Plus, at some point we'll need to think about embarked craft.

Like I said though, a pair of holds and a shuttle bay would carry those needs just fine. Most everything on board can be replicated so spare parts aren't going to be a huge worry.

Doesn't the replicator require raw materials? Unlike an explorer a warship won't be investigating rocks and such and using the uninteresting stuff for raw materials.

I'd imagine that replicator stock could be stored in in-frame tanks or some such, without requiring actual vacant cargo space.

I believe replicators require power, not material. They need the material first so they know what to make, but after that its just a matter of turning energy into matter. Also a battleship wont be as far away from home as most explorers are. Outside of war, the battleships would rarely leave UFP space.

The point of a peace time battleship is to make people go "OH CRAP!" when they see it. Then in war time they get to see it in action and go "OH I CRAPPED". The UFP isn't going to send out a battleship if a cruiser can do the job. The battleship is only here to do what no other ship in the fleet can do. If the crew needs something then it will have to be replicated or they just won't get it.

Deepcrush wrote:I believe replicators require power, not material. They need the material first so they know what to make, but after that its just a matter of turning energy into matter.

Please tell me you didn't just say that. A replicator is a device that uses transporter technology to dematerialize quantities of matter and then rematerialize that matter in another form. It is also capable of inverting its function, thus disposing leftovers and dishes and storing the bulk material again

Even a battleship can pull up next to a planet or astroid if it needs material. Power is still the most important thing. Plus, Transporters can clone people so that means the amount of matter to start isn't as important as it can fill in what it doesn't have.

Deepcrush wrote: Plus, Transporters can clone people so that means the amount of matter to start isn't as important as it can fill in what it doesn't have.

Those were all freak accidents, and the transporter probably called up material from the replicator's stores to compensate for the extra mass. Or it may be something compleatly unrelated to the replicator because they're two seperate technologys that work on the same principles.