I wonder...

[sunnyside]

Actually. Thinking more about it. Maybe most if not all trek infantry weapons should have multiple fire modes.

I think every races weapons have a setting that'll vaporize someone (even dominion), but they typically fire attacks that simply kill (or often wound in the case of dominion). Also all/most can stun but lets leave that aside for the moment.

The more powerful blast could be "heavy" typed. Meaning you can't move and use it. It could also have some other disadvantage such as a chance of running out of energy or something. They could also be able to only fire a high powered shot once per game. There is a precident for this in 40K with its one special shot "combi" weapons.

The kill setting could provide a higher rate of fire, the ability to move and fire, or just the ability to fire that way every turn possibly varying from weapon to weapon. Note that rate of fire in 40K also has the idea of ammo capacity. If you have plenty of ammo you can just snap off a lot of shots, when you have scarcity you're forced to try and take fewer but better aimed shots.

The multiple fire modes thing is very cannon and has the advantage of making vehicles less of a problem. As it is the lack of heavy weapons in many armies means a lot of squads would be unable to cope with a vehicles heavier armor (or the armor would have to be weak enough to be violated by the regular weapons fire).

[Reliant121]

The vaporize setting could be used with more effect against vehicles and could be jury rigged to act like a switchable missile launcher.

[Mikey]

Makes sense to me. Or, use it like a combi-weapon; get one shot per unit per game at the heavy/low-AP setting, and have it function like "normal" the rest of the time.

[sunnyside]

Heh. Did you reply before I got to add the Combi weapon comment in the above?

While a bit of extra book keeping I rather like the combi option as its much easier to make work rules wise. Also fits better in with the background where I think their reason for not using more powerful blasts regularly is ammo capacity (Though I fear they do get more than one). Of course as the setting limits supplies it's possible that some energy rationing has been going on and personel weapons only have enough juice for one power shot.

[Mikey]

Heh. Did you reply before I got to add the Combi weapon comment in the above?

While a bit of extra book keeping I rather like the combi option as its much easier to make work rules wise. Also fits better in with the background where I think their reason for not using more powerful blasts regularly is ammo capacity (Though I fear they do get more than one). Of course as the setting limits supplies it's possible that some energy rationing has been going on and personel weapons only have enough juice for one power shot.

Yes, I did. Great minds think alike, eh?

While I agree that realism demands more than one "heavy" shot, I think both for ease of use and for balance the one-shot "combi" type works better. More than that and you end up with real cheap krak missiles.

[sunnyside]

Or stupid expensive infantry.

Actually on the one shot thing. It could be safe to assume that they aren't just setting to a nice medium vaporize. No when you need to pop a vehicle it's time to jam the thing all the way to the top.

That might very well deplete enough power or corrode internals enough that you can't do it twice. Especially if they've tweaked things a bit to let the fire harder than usual.

There is then the issue of what power level to give these attacks. Game wise having type II phasers put out the equivalent of a Krak grendade (str6 ap4) and rifles put out a plasma shot(strenth 7 ap 2) would fit well into 40K without seeming to be unbalanicng.

I'd probably drop their respective normal "kill" shots down to a strength 4 which meshes better with the numbers deep is putting up.

[Mikey]

I'd buy that. I was kidding about krak missiles, and I can't imagine even the one shot being as effective as the big anti-armor guns like lascannons.

[Reliant121]

That works.I would imagine that a special weapon would be like a movable phaser array. Perhaps a heavier type IV or type V phaser, for taking out vehicles. But small handheld stuff can be configured to sort of be effective.

The LasCannon can be equated to a heavy phaser/disrupter. Or the personal photon torpedo launcher seen in Star Trek Elite force

[Mikey]

The lascannon is actually one of the most destructive anti-vehicular weapons that the Imperium fields. I've never seen anything in 'Trek to parallel it, though this "personal photon torpedo launcher" might be close - although I think I'd equate that to a missile.

[Reliant121]

It was a shoulder mounted weapon which fired photon torpedoes.

[Deepcrush]

Sunnyside is on a roll over here! This is all greatness! Sunny, could you come up with an overall wargear list and vehicle list? That would be awesome to add to the ST 40k Thread. I would like to build a complete list so I can begin testing the units themselves. I'm going to keep adding races if you can take care of twiking special units?

[sunnyside]

Aw. :blushes:

Anyway that's all the vehicles and wargear I know of in cannon for the feds that I deem to be small enough to "fit" in the station planet this is set it to provide an excuse why ground combat is happening at all (it also means I don't have to try and balance a Danube with regular troopers).

I think I'll change the weapons to the combi type things discussed above. And I think I might change the type 4 lasers to be more like a las cannon. Maybe a couple other little things. Otherwise I'd consider it "done" barring further input/testing.

We should probably pick one more race to do fully.

Do you have powerpoint Crush?

EDIT: Tweaked points and rules to reflect the "different modes" discussion we had here.

[sunnyside]

Alright I put together Klingon on Federation full armies that at least could be playtested.

Now it comes to the question of will they be.

To get an idea of how it might fit together try putting together forces of 1000 points

However you notice the "choices" things. You can't just take all Captains and such. There are requirements.

You must take 1 HQ choice. You may take a second but no more.

You must take 2 Troop units You may take up to 4 more

You may have 0-3 Elite units

You may have 0-3 fast attack units

You may have 0-3 heavy support units.

So for example a federation army might start with a captain and command squad and two units of federation soldiers with an isomagnetic disintigrar each. Then if you're feeling like shooting big guns you could take up to 3 type 15 shuttles and 3 groups of 5 Tr-116 snipers. Depending on options that could get to about 1000 points.

[Mikey]

As you know, I'm not an experienced WH40k army builder, but would 1,000-pt. armies get a bit large to manage in this format?

While I'm asking questions, I've gotten a new interest in WH40k after this, especially with the possibility of playing in this type of format without actually buying, painting, modifying, and transporting models - should I look into purchasing one or more rulebooks, or should I wait for 5th edition in July? And is there a "core" rulebook, or just a separate codex for each army type?

[Deepcrush]

I've had a thought about the stats. In stead of using the normal factoring of GWS. Which for those who are new to 40k means that a stat is twice as strong as the stat below it and half as strong as the stat above it. I would recommend that the stats be factored by their multiples. Since none of the races in trek are an even match for a Space Marine or Crisis Suit it would to me make more sense and give us more room to play with on our stats. I think the same should be said about their weapons.