Voyager gets a new captain.....

mlsnoopy · Post by **mlsnoopy** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:55 am

Adama as captain.
We might actuly like Voyeger. Would get a nice 70 seasone long run of the seris. No endgame. He would probalby shut down the main computer.

Jenwey gets vented into space.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:58 am

mlsnoopy wrote:Adama as captain.
We might actuly like Voyeger. Would get a nice 70 seasone long run of the seris. No endgame. He would probalby shut down the main computer.

Jenwey gets vented into space.

Out of a launch tube no less.

kostmayer · Post by **kostmayer** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:36 pm

Nah, I say merge her with Neelix like they did to poor Tuvok.

A fate worse then death.

Post by **Tsukiyumi** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:51 pm

"Neeway"?

That's about the most disturbing thing I've ever heard. It's also a great argument for euthanasia.

Duskofdead · Post by **Duskofdead** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 4:34 pm

Mikey wrote:Actually, I think he would have attacked the Borg to get a transwarp coil. And I believe his monomania (on getting home, in this case) would have served to provide the CORRECT mix between ignoring every little distraction which Janeway went off after and going off after the truly helpful things.

Janeway would be sharing a cell with a Cylon in a matter of hours.

Well the show more or less gave you a glimpse into "what Voyager didn't do" which apparently a lot of you here think Janeway should have done... i.e. do whatever it takes to get home as quickly and efficiently as possible. It was the subject of a season finale/premiere involving the USS Equinox..

Ultimately, it was writing concerns that had them stop as often as they did (crisis or distress call per week to give the show something to entertain us with) but Janeway also wouldn't have been much of a "Starfleet captain" if she ignored every unknown phenomenon they passed and ignored every distress signal. Not to mention, as I said, they would have been passing by a lot of happenstances that landed them jumps closer to home by "exploring."

I guess the whole thread surprised me a little, in how much personal Janeway hate there is. I personally felt conflicted and at odds with several of the decisions she made, but I think that made me think a lot. It was an entirely different feeling watching Voyager than watching Picard, where Picard felt like "the wise man who knew it all already" and you just sat down and listened like a little kid. Janeway was a new captain on a new ship with a new crew thrown into an impossible situation and she had to feel her way through as best she could, often requiring her to compromise the stricter edges of Federation policies for necessity while still trying to live up to the essential values and principles of said policies. That conflict was central to the show.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 5:36 pm

Janeway was a new captain on a new ship with a new crew thrown into an impossible situation and she had to feel her way through as best she could, often requiring her to compromise the stricter edges of Federation policies for necessity while still trying to live up to the essential values and principles of said policies. That conflict was central to the show.

Yeah, it's just too bad she always ended up making the worst possible decisions.

Duskofdead · Post by **Duskofdead** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:41 pm

Rochey wrote:
Janeway was a new captain on a new ship with a new crew thrown into an impossible situation and she had to feel her way through as best she could, often requiring her to compromise the stricter edges of Federation policies for necessity while still trying to live up to the essential values and principles of said policies. That conflict was central to the show.
Yeah, it's just too bad she always ended up making the worst possible decisions.

I just don't think that's true. I think that if Janeway were the captain it sounds like many of you think she should have been, she would have said to hell with the Ocampa and there would have been no show premise.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:27 pm

Duskofdead wrote:
I just don't think that's true. I think that if Janeway were the captain it sounds like many of you think she should have been, she would have said to hell with the Ocampa and there would have been no show premise.

We recognise what happened was writers fiat, that doesn't mean that we can't discuss what actually should have happened. She could have helped the Ocampa and escaped, she could have used a timer.

mlsnoopy · Post by **mlsnoopy** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:48 pm

she would have said to hell with the Ocampa

She said the hell with the Ocampas The problem was the Array, wich would give Kazons advance technology. The caretaker gave Ocampas enough energy to sustain for a few years then they would be again helpless.

stitch626 · Post by **stitch626** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:02 pm

I must say: never judge a person's decision until you must make it for youself. A lot of people keep bringing up Janeway's bad decisions, but how would you do thousands of lightyears from home with Starfleet regulations?
Adama did not have Starfleet training and Starfleet regulations. I don't think that he would get much loyalty from the crew.
As for Janeway on Galactica; I have not watched the new series, but I don't think she would do well. Starfleet training would not likely be an asset when fighting hte Cylons (trying to form an allience, like with the Borg).
We could also ask, how would any other captain have done in Janeway's shoes?

Ok, done ranting.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:27 pm

As for Janeway on Galactica; I have not watched the new series, but I don't think she would do well. Starfleet training would not likely be an asset when fighting hte Cylons (trying to form an allience, like with the Borg).

Ouch. I can just see Janeway saying "Hail those Cylon Basestars" right in the middle of an attack.
I can then see President Roslin (aka, President Airlock) having her thrown in the brig and giving Tigh command.

The Cylons in the new series are much more ruthless, and the universe is a lot rougher. Any attempts to make peace will end in death.
In fact, there was a time when the humans did make peace with the Cylons. They settled down on a little planet called New Caprica. A year later, the Cylons came back and took over the place.

Duskofdead · Post by **Duskofdead** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:48 pm

Cpl Kendall wrote:
Duskofdead wrote:
I just don't think that's true. I think that if Janeway were the captain it sounds like many of you think she should have been, she would have said to hell with the Ocampa and there would have been no show premise.
We recognise what happened was writers fiat, that doesn't mean that we can't discuss what actually should have happened. She could have helped the Ocampa and escaped, she could have used a timer.

My understanding of the episode was that not only were they losing to the ships already present, but that the Kazon were bringing in more. I doubt Voyager was in shape to hold out for "several hours" while Tuvok worked on getting the alien transportation technology working. That could have just been my impression though, the show doesn't flat out say that the Kazon were overwhelming them, you just get that impression from Chakotay saying Voyager's in trouble and sacrificing his ship to try to even the fight a little.

I disagreed with a lot of what Janeway did. But I think that MOST of the decisions she made that I disagreed with were "screwed if you do, screwed if you don't" scenarios. Tuvix is an example, I seriously felt sorry for the guy. It wasn't his fault how he was created-- and it would have been one thing to perform the procedure minutes or hours later. It was entirely another to do it weeks/months later, after he had become an accustomed part of the crew and developed his own identity. To be honest I was shocked at what Janeway did but then I understood her point of view too... leaving him alive meant killing two other crew members, including one she'd been particularly close to for years. It was honestly a no-win situation.

The other decisions that were deemed so poor ... a lot of them yes were sticking to principle in situations not very friendly to people who played by the rules. But as I said earlier I feel that the show "addressed" the issue of "what if we did it no holds barred, do what we need to in order to survive and get home faster." Equinox, The Void, etc., showed that "path." I wouldn't have wanted to watch seven years of Starfleet people raiding and pillaging ships they happened across along their direct route home, personally.

Post by **Mikey** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:55 am

Duskofdead wrote:Picard felt like "the wise man who knew it all already" and you just sat down and listened like a little kid. Janeway was a new captain on a new ship with a new crew thrown into an impossible situation and she had to feel her way through as best she could, often requiring her to compromise the stricter edges of Federation policies for necessity while still trying to live up to the essential values and principles of said policies. That conflict was central to the show.

The problem was twofold: either Janeway acted like she knew it all when she patently didn't - "we've got to blow up the only thing that can get us home without even trying to think of a better alternative" - or she acted in an ordinary manner in an extraordinary situation. What I mean by that is, while it's very "Starfleet" to explore every world and anomaly, that has no place when you're stranded clear across the galaxy and are trying to somehow make your way home.

kostmayer · Post by **kostmayer** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:49 am

What I mean by that is, while it's very "Starfleet" to explore every world and anomaly, that has no place when you're stranded clear across the galaxy and are trying to somehow make your way home.

To be fair, didn't Picard do exactly the same thing in Q Who?

Not only had he had a specific warning from Guinan, he must have realised that it was a dangerous region of space else Q wouldn't have sent him there in the first place.

Quite a costly mistake in terms of lives, though I guess that was the point.

Post by **Mikey** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:55 pm

No, he was sent to J25 and IIRC started trying to get home. Haven't seen that ep in a while, so I can't be sure. If he did pull a "Janeway" in that situation, then he deserves to be pilloried for it too. Just because he did it doesn't make it OK for her.