Borg Retaliation

[Captain Seafort]

I'm not convinced the humanoid has to be aliveto be assimilated. Witness Seven's resurrection of Neelix, for example.

A resurrection directly contrary to everything we'd been shown about the Borg - that they don't give a shit about individual drones, and will destroy them if they go down. Conclusion: they may have the ability to resurrect the dead under certain circumstances, but it isn't an efficient use of resources.

Sorry, should've expanded. Drones into office buildings, military bases, subways... all over the globe.

Other than those sites either underground, or near electrical substations, both of which bugger up transporters. Yes, it will cause problems. It doesn't change the fact that the drones have no ranged weapons, and no protection against KE attacks.

Armored drones who we can't beat in hand to hand... and want to come into range with those tubules.

What armoured drones?

And come in, Seafort! It was a hell of a lot more than just plugging in. They were aboard the fleet flagship, with a Soong-type android. And he found that weakness a split-second before the E-D was destroyed. Are we gona be able to hack into a drone... or even know what to look for?

We wouldn't need to hack into a drone - the Borg would be making the connection for us by hacking into the internet. As for hacking the Borg, while comms, defences and navigation systems are protected, not all their key systems are protected - Data was simply rooting around in their system, with no indication of any password-protection or equivalent. Set even a few dozen people to the same task and you'd vastly multiply your chances of crippling something critical.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

A resurrection directly contrary to everything we'd been shown about the Borg - that they don't give a s**t about individual drones, and will destroy them if they go down. Conclusion: they may have the ability to resurrect the dead under certain circumstances, but it isn't an efficient use of resources

If the body's there, itd be inefficient not to use it. Tractor a city up, beam the corpses aboard and add their perfection to their own.

Other than those sites either underground, or near electrical substations, both of which bugger up transporters. Yes, it will cause problems. It doesn't change the fact that the drones have no ranged weapons, and no protection against KE attacks.

Point, but an average drone is still stronger than a human. It'll also cause mass panic.

What armoured drones?

Umm... the black carapaces they wear. Isn't that armor?

No, seriously. I thought that was armor.

We wouldn't need to hack into a drone - the Borg would be making the connection for us by hacking into the internet. As for hacking the Borg, while comms, defences and navigation systems are protected, not all their key systems are protected - Data was simply rooting around in their system, with no indication of any password-protection or equivalent. Set even a few dozen people to the same task and you'd vastly multiply your chances of crippling something critical.[/quote
By directly interfacing his advanced neural net with a living drone. Seriuously, Seafort. Would we be able to interface our own computers and reverse-hack their own software, not to mention making the leap about the 'sleep' command?

[Captain Seafort]

If the body's there, itd be inefficient not to use it. Tractor a city up, beam the corpses aboard and add their perfection to their own.

Then why don't the Borg carry weapons, shoot everyone in sight and then assimilate the corpses?

Point, but an average drone is still stronger than a human. It'll also cause mass panic.

Until people figure out that they're slow as molasses and are vulnerable to small-arms fire. Whereupon the military will start scything them down in large numbers.

Umm... the black carapaces they wear. Isn't that armor?

No, seriously. I thought that was armor.

Body armour doesn't get shredded by low-velocity rounds the way the two Borg in the holodeck were.

By directly interfacing his advanced neural net with a living drone. Seriuously, Seafort. Would we be able to interface our own computers and reverse-hack their own software, not to mention making the leap about the 'sleep' command?

In the scenario we're discussing the interface has already been established by the Borg themselves - that's the hard bit. Once it's done, it's just a matter of letting loose a decent number of hackers and viruses on the Borg, and watching the results. It probably won't even be necessary to activate that exact sequence - just fuck up the OS badly enough, and the malfunction triggers the self-destruct.

[Mikey]

If the Borg could use dead bodies, they wouldn't need bodies at all - they'd just be robots.

[Lighthawk]

I think there's a problem with this debate. The thing is, when have we ever seen the borg assimulate a world? I can't think of a time, all I recall is how they did things with individual ships, which is to tractor, drain, and then beam over and start assimulating the crew one by one. Such a individual by individual method seems far too slow to be used on a planet. While I suppose the borg don't really get impatient, it just seems so ineffective.

We've never seen the process by which the borg actually take over a planet. It seems a bit foolish to just assume it's the same process they use for capturing ships, the scale is just so immensely different. Maybe they release their nano-probes into the atmosphere and let the population breath them in? Maybe they have War of the World type walkers to gather up people? Who knows what they might have for planetary assimulation that we've never seen because it would be practical on a ship scale. Hell, maybe they blow down the defenses of the world and start transporting the population up in batches for probe injection.

As for the military mowing down drones, what makes you think they'd leave us a military? The borg have shown no hesitation to blowing up ships that were threatening them, they don't have a desire or need to assimulate every single individual they come across. Most likely they would drop into orbit, and bombard all military bases into dust. Sure they'd lose a few thousand potential drones, but considering they'd be getting billions back out of the civilian population, I doubt they'd care.

[Mikey]

Deep and his Ma Deuce could hold Maryland against the Borg as long as he had rounds. Hell, the Secret Service uses P229's chambered for .357 SIG's - they'd manhandle the Borg.

[stitch626]

I wonder, if the Borg lost several hundred drones to projectile fire, would they eventually make armour?

[Deepcrush]

Even if they did it wouldn't stop a .50 cal round. They punch through engine blocks like their paper plates.

Deep and his Ma Deuce could hold Maryland against the Borg as long as he had rounds.

Is that a bet I hear???

[stitch626]

Even if they did it wouldn't stop a .50 cal round...

No joke. For that they'd need KE shields.

[SomosFuga]

Other than those sites either underground, or near electrical substations, both of which bugger up transporters. Yes, it will cause problems. It doesn't change the fact that the drones have no ranged weapons, and no protection against KE attacks.

Both of which bugger up UFP transporters, borg transporters are probably more advanced. We don't have seen those weapons, that doesn't necessarily mean that doesn't exist. Here we go again with the KE problem.

What armoured drones?

I also believe there are armoured/tactical drones (wich solve the KE problem) but lets forget about that, the borg don't need to put one boot on the planet's surface, they just star beaming up people by the hundreds or more at a time. We would not know what hit us.

We wouldn't need to hack into a drone - the Borg would be making the connection for us by hacking into the internet. As for hacking the Borg, while comms, defences and navigation systems are protected, not all their key systems are protected - Data was simply rooting around in their system, with no indication of any password-protection or equivalent.

That flaw existed because no one had never use it against them but it is so symple that the borg have probably fixed it by now, just install a firewall.

Set even a few dozen people to the same task and you'd vastly multiply your chances of crippling something critical.

Our internet must be like an abacus for the borg, set a few dozen people from 2000 years ago and and ask them to hack your pc. They should be able of overwhelm our systems in a beat. Just imagine trying to hack their programming language.

[Mikey]

are probably more advanced.

We don't have seen those weapons, that doesn't necessarily mean that doesn't exist.

I also believe there are armoured/tactical drones

the borg have probably fixed it

All of these are unfounded suppositions. What evidence do we have of Borg transporters operating on a different principle than UFP ones; of Borg ranged weaponry that's never been demonstrated, even though the Borg have been in situations which call for it; of some new sort of drone which hasn't been deployed, although similarly called for; of any change in their OS?

[SomosFuga]

are probably more advanced.

We don't have seen those weapons, that doesn't necessarily mean that doesn't exist.

I also believe there are armoured/tactical drones

the borg have probably fixed it

All of these are unfounded suppositions. What evidence do we have of Borg transporters operating on a different principle than UFP ones; of Borg ranged weaponry that's never been demonstrated, even though the Borg have been in situations which call for it; of some new sort of drone which hasn't been deployed, although similarly called for; of any change in their OS?

For the first one: We have seen the borg transporting drones through shields so their transporters are at least in some way more advanced, even if they are not, doesn't matter because the point was a reply to

Other than those sites either underground, or near electrical substations, both of which bugger up transporters.

and neither of those locations are going to protect you from transportation, even when those transporter problems appear the crew are able to overcome them after a while and even if the borg can't, you can't hide any significant amount of people there.

For the second: I said that as an answer to

It doesn't change the fact that the drones have no ranged weapons

The assumption would be to say "We don't have seen those weapons, therefore doesn't exist".

For the third: After that, i continued "but lets forget about that" because it doesn't matter if there are or not those drones, in this particular issue (Borg assimilating a today's Earth like planet), because they can transport us to their ship for assimilation without a fight. Plus, in ep Drone, One had reactive body armour; of course he isn't a ordinary drone and he had 29th century tech, but the point is now we know the borg can use body armor.

For the fourth: Yes, big assumption here, but again, in this particular issue is not really important IMO because there is no way we can hack their systems.

[stitch626]

What evidence do we have of Borg transporters operating on a different principle than UFP ones

Borg can transport through shields.

[SomosFuga]

What OS stands for?

[Deepcrush]

When have the Borg ever transported through shields??? I thought they always had to drain them first with their tractor beams.