"Message in a Bottle"
-
- 4 Star Admiral
- Posts: 21747
- Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:38 pm
- Location: Forward Torpedo Tube Twenty. Help!
- Contact:
Re: "Message in a Bottle"
Agreed. It seems like a gimmick design that they were just experimenting with, honestly. I imagine it's success would probably spur Starfleet to put it into production anyways.
There is only one way of avoiding the war – that is the overthrow of this society. However, as we are too weak for this task, the war is inevitable. -L. Trotsky, 1939
-
- 4 Star Admiral
- Posts: 26014
- Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:58 pm
- Location: Poblacht na hÉireann, Baile Átha Cliath
Re: "Message in a Bottle"
The Prometheus is quite clearly a powerful ship. No one here is debating that fact. What we're saying is that removing the MVAM and either building one large ship or three smaller ships is a far superior design for many reasons.
"You've all been selected for this mission because you each have a special skill. Professor Hawking, John Leslie, Phil Neville, the Wu-Tang Clan, Usher, the Sugar Puffs Monster and Daniel Day-Lewis! Welcome to Operation MindFuck!"
Re: "Message in a Bottle"
Where did anyone say, or even imply, that?Tsukiyumi wrote:I was under the impression that you, Seafort and Thorin were arguing that the Prometheus wasn't a powerful design.
80085
-
- Banned
- Posts: 5594
- Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:53 pm
Re: "Message in a Bottle"
That you despise the very thing it was designed for?Thorin wrote:Where did anyone say, or even imply, that?Tsukiyumi wrote:I was under the impression that you, Seafort and Thorin were arguing that the Prometheus wasn't a powerful design.
-
- 4 Star Admiral
- Posts: 21747
- Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:38 pm
- Location: Forward Torpedo Tube Twenty. Help!
- Contact:
Re: "Message in a Bottle"
Well, I don't know, Thorin. Maybe making dozens of statements claiming it to be a waste of resources, and poorly designed could lead people to believe that you think the design is useless?Thorin wrote:Where did anyone say, or even imply, that?Tsukiyumi wrote:I was under the impression that you, Seafort and Thorin were arguing that the Prometheus wasn't a powerful design.
I know Bridge Commander is far from a useful judge of canon, but it was much easier to beat a GCS in MVAM mode because it couldn't ever turn its full firepower against any one section; they're just too manuverable. The fore and aft torpedoes never could come to bear, even after the GCS saucer-seperated.
There is only one way of avoiding the war – that is the overthrow of this society. However, as we are too weak for this task, the war is inevitable. -L. Trotsky, 1939
- Captain Seafort
- 4 Star Admiral
- Posts: 15548
- Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:44 pm
- Location: Blighty
Re: "Message in a Bottle"
"The very thing it was designed for"? Perhaps the fact that it was a pupose built warship, a test-bed for the most advanced tactical systems available, and the fastest ship in the fleet slipped your mind? The fact that they slapped on the MVAM stupidity doesn't negate the rest of that.ChakatBlackstar wrote:That you despise the very thing it was designed for?
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.
Re: "Message in a Bottle"
Tsukiyumi wrote: Well, I don't know, Thorin. Maybe making dozens of statements claiming it to be a waste of resources, and poorly designed could lead people to believe that you think the design is useless?
Where did I claim that? I have described its merits and its cons. Please, if you're going to put words into my mouth make sure it's got some basis. Just because I was debating a specific point that Teaos thought was a merit but was actually a con doesn't mean I put forward my opinion on it.
80085
-
- 4 Star Admiral
- Posts: 21747
- Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:38 pm
- Location: Forward Torpedo Tube Twenty. Help!
- Contact:
Re: "Message in a Bottle"
Which are your opinions... Its merits and cons, in your opinion. I agree completely that your opinions have more merit, and basis in sound tactics than some of the other arguments, but it's still your opinion.Thorin wrote:...I have described its merits and its cons...
EDIT: Unless you're just playing devil's advocate, in which case, I understand.
There is only one way of avoiding the war – that is the overthrow of this society. However, as we are too weak for this task, the war is inevitable. -L. Trotsky, 1939
Re: "Message in a Bottle"
No, I have, if you actually bother to read my posts, described the technical pros and cons, specifically with regards to a proportionally greater surface area on 3 separate ships, but they can deal with 3 separate incidents. I have at no point - as you have labelled me as saying - said the Prometheus is a waste, or even MVAM is a waste (indeed, I said if it could be a nice idea, just not in a generic ship v ship/fleet v fleet environment).
80085
-
- Banned
- Posts: 5594
- Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:53 pm
Re: "Message in a Bottle"
What proof do we have that it was the testbed for those advanced systems? And increasing speed is hardly a major deal. Just an improvement of engine technology with no indications of it's engines being experimental.Captain Seafort wrote:"The very thing it was designed for"? Perhaps the fact that it was a pupose built warship, a test-bed for the most advanced tactical systems available, and the fastest ship in the fleet slipped your mind? The fact that they slapped on the MVAM stupidity doesn't negate the rest of that.ChakatBlackstar wrote:That you despise the very thing it was designed for?
-
- 4 Star Admiral
- Posts: 21747
- Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:38 pm
- Location: Forward Torpedo Tube Twenty. Help!
- Contact:
Re: "Message in a Bottle"
I believe it was Rochey and Seafort who stressed the Prometheus being a waste of resources, but you've consistently reinforced and agreed with their points. The three of you have been in MVAM mode during this debate; I guess I just associated your argument with theirs by default. My apologies.Thorin wrote:No, I have, if you actually bother to read my posts, described the technical pros and cons, specifically with regards to a proportionally greater surface area on 3 separate ships, but they can deal with 3 separate incidents. I have at no point - as you have labelled me as saying - said the Prometheus is a waste, or even MVAM is a waste (indeed, I said if it could be a nice idea, just not in a generic ship v ship/fleet v fleet environment).
There is only one way of avoiding the war – that is the overthrow of this society. However, as we are too weak for this task, the war is inevitable. -L. Trotsky, 1939
Re: "Message in a Bottle"
I haven't agreed with them - the only thing I have been saying is with regards to the technical aspect; that 1/3 of the ship would have [less than] 1/3 of the shield strength - and probably around 1/3 of the weapons depending on 'hidden' weapons. I have said that 3 sections are good to deal with 3 separate incidents, which is also hardly an opinion on the usability of MVAM system.
80085
-
- 4 Star Admiral
- Posts: 21747
- Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:38 pm
- Location: Forward Torpedo Tube Twenty. Help!
- Contact:
Re: "Message in a Bottle"
Seriously, I'm not trying to be rude or something, but that is still your opinion, Thorin.Thorin wrote:I have said that 3 sections are good to deal with 3 separate incidents, which is also hardly an opinion on the usability of MVAM system.
Fact is only sometimes an absolute.
There is only one way of avoiding the war – that is the overthrow of this society. However, as we are too weak for this task, the war is inevitable. -L. Trotsky, 1939
-
- Fleet Admiral
- Posts: 35635
- Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:04 am
- Commendations: The Daystrom Award
- Location: down the shore, New Jersey, USA
- Contact:
Re: "Message in a Bottle"
The issue with shield strength is dependent on whether or not we have any evidence, or even indication, that the total power available to each of the separated section is in fact exactly 1/3 that of the combined ship. Has there been any indication on the show one way or the other?
I can't stand nothing dull
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
-
- Banned
- Posts: 5594
- Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:53 pm
Re: "Message in a Bottle"
NegativeMikey wrote:The issue with shield strength is dependent on whether or not we have any evidence, or even indication, that the total power available to each of the separated section is in fact exactly 1/3 that of the combined ship. Has there been any indication on the show one way or the other?