How would you deal with Kirk's cheating?

[Graham Kennedy]

Honestly? I might. I might well slap her wrist for cheating as well, but I honestly think at some point I'd say "and by the way... that was really nicely done."

Of course, thinking about that, there's another aspect to all this. If it were MY kid, she would be SO smart that she wouldn't get punished because she wouldn't get caught. Kirk was good enough to beat the test... but he wasn't good enough to avoid getting caught, now was he?

And I wonder what we would all think of him if he had been?

[Mikey]

I honestly think at some point I'd say "and by the way... that was really nicely done."

I might express admiration for it, but never to her.

And I wonder what we would all think of him if he had been?

We wouldn't be talking about it at all, because nobody would know.

[Sionnach Glic]

Well, I'll tell you this. If I were to serve on a Starfleet ship, and I had a choice between a Captain who would go down with his ship in a brave way, overcoming his fear and being all manly and ethical to the end... or a Captain who would actually win and go home happy and arrogant while everybody whined about how he cheated... I know which one I would pick.

The problem is, he won't be able to cheat in the real world. Getting into just such a situation would result in the entire ship be destroyed. I'd rather serve under a captain who understands when and where success is possible than one who refuses to accept that there are times when there's simply nothing that can be done.

[stitch626]

But there is never a situation where nothing can be done, simply for the fact that nothing can't be done.
However, the results of this test show nothing of his character because he had taken it already. If he encountered this situation in real life, he would probably react the same way he did the first time he took the test, which we don't know.

[Graham Kennedy]

Well, I'll tell you this. If I were to serve on a Starfleet ship, and I had a choice between a Captain who would go down with his ship in a brave way, overcoming his fear and being all manly and ethical to the end... or a Captain who would actually win and go home happy and arrogant while everybody whined about how he cheated... I know which one I would pick.

The problem is, he won't be able to cheat in the real world. Getting into just such a situation would result in the entire ship be destroyed. I'd rather serve under a captain who understands when and where success is possible than one who refuses to accept that there are times when there's simply nothing that can be done.

Well this is going to turn on what is meant by the word, but Kirk often DOES win by "cheating" in the real world. He frequently beat a situation through misdirection, tricks, luring an enemy to think one thing and then spinning it around on him, etc. Look at ST II; he "cheated" to lower Khan's shields and cripple the ship, "cheated" by planting disinformation about how badly the Enterprise was damaged with false orders to leave. Such tactics are absolutely vintage Kirk, and TOS is probably crammed full of people who went home fuming that "he only beat men because he cheated!"

[Sionnach Glic]

That's hardly cheating. There's a difference between being clever enough to use information and deception to your advantage, and turning God Mode on. There's also the difference that one of those things can't be done in reality.

[Tyyr]

Yeah and reality you don't get to die twice and come back and try the same thing for a third time.

Unless you're Hindu.

[Sionnach Glic]

Goddamn cheating Hindus!

[SomosFuga]

And you can hardly judge that such a cadet would become a great captain. On the contrary, the natural assumption would be that he would make an exceptionaly poor officer.

We also don't know (IU, of course) if Kirk will become a great Captain, or even a marginally competent one

Well, at this point he had already graduated or was about to (don't remember exactly) one year ahead of his class, that should be a good clue about his future performance as officer.

[Mikey]

Close to graduation? In the Abrams-verse, Kirk wasn't even allowed on the emergency cadet crews because of his cheating.

[Aaron]

Was he actually cheating or trying to make some point about the test. Cause the clip I've seen makes it look like he's hamming it up to embarrass Spock.

[Tyyr]

He altered the simulation so you could call it cheating. At this point, third run through, I think it was mostly just to piss off Spock and make a point.

[Nickswitz]

piss off Spock

Yeah, I think that's what it was about more than anything...

[SomosFuga]

Close to graduation? In the Abrams-verse, Kirk wasn't even allowed on the emergency cadet crews because of his cheating.

Wasn't he about to graduate before the KM incident?

[Graham Kennedy]

Yeah and reality you don't get to die twice and come back and try the same thing for a third time.

Unless you're Hindu.

Or Spock.

Like I said, it turns on what you call "cheating". You can argue that nothing a person can do in reality is really a cheat. But Kirk often won through tricks and unconventional means, and I bet it sure felt like cheating to the people he beat that way.