Everything you always wanted to know about 'The Doctor'

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

Been a long time since I saw that Ep but Ruk possibly was. Andrea was little more then a child though.

Well, Ruk had been running for a long time. Andrea was new, IIRC.


And I believe Paris and Kim tried remaking the EMH when he got sent to the Prometheus.

[thelordharry]

...And I believe Paris and Kim tried remaking the EMH when he got sent to the Prometheus.

Yeah, where was his backup programme then???

[Sonic Glitch]

...And I believe Paris and Kim tried remaking the EMH when he got sent to the Prometheus.

Yeah, where was his backup programme then???

Yes... I seem to remember repeated statements or implications that the doctor does not in fact have a back up. Hence starting from scratch in "Prometheus"

[Captain Seafort]

Yes... I seem to remember repeated statements or implications that the doctor does not in fact have a back up. Hence starting from scratch in "Prometheus"

He had a backup, as seen in "Living Witness". The problem was that the backup was apparently limited to specific hardware, so when the disk (for want of a better term) was lost, so was the backup. Hence by the time of "Message in a Bottle" they didn't have a backup.

[Sonic Glitch]

Yes... I seem to remember repeated statements or implications that the doctor does not in fact have a back up. Hence starting from scratch in "Prometheus"

He had a backup, as seen in "Living Witness". The problem was that the backup was apparently limited to specific hardware, so when the disk (for want of a better term) was lost, so was the backup. Hence by the time of "Message in a Bottle" they didn't have a backup.

Oh that was a back up? I thought it was his program, it had just been deactivated for god knows how many years.. tho now that you mention it, I do seem to remember the alien scientist does stumble onto some sort of equipment module.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

Yes... I seem to remember repeated statements or implications that the doctor does not in fact have a back up. Hence starting from scratch in "Prometheus"

He had a backup, as seen in "Living Witness". The problem was that the backup was apparently limited to specific hardware, so when the disk (for want of a better term) was lost, so was the backup. Hence by the time of "Message in a Bottle" they didn't have a backup.

Oh that was a back up? I thought it was his program, it had just been deactivated for god knows how many years.. tho now that you mention it, I do seem to remember the alien scientist does stumble onto some sort of equipment module.

No, that was the backup. Otherwise... how'd the Doctor continue to serve on Voyager?

[SomosFuga]

I think we're saying the same, maybe I'm missing something here.

What you said was that it was an odd circumstance, or at least that's what you seemed to be saying. I'm not saying it's odd at all. Just leave a Mk I running long enough and it'll happen. No need for odd circumstances.

Yes, that is what i say and i maintain my argument, i don't think is just he was running for a long time but that along with the series of events we already know, though i do believe the others Mk I's could have a similar result under similar circumstances.
Just imagine a Mk I all day sitting in the sickbay facing the wall waiting for a patient; i don't think he would have accomplished much in the way to sapience all by himself and without the freedoms and support granted to him by Janeway and crew.

Can they do that? i mean, can they duplicate that accident? maybe is fluke and they can't do it on purpose.

It was a fluke but I don't know if its totally unrepeatable. Regardless, if you question the sapience of the Doctor because you can cut and paste him then since you can cut and paste people, Riker, you'd also have to question human sapience.

Well, it wasn't me who questioned the sapience of the doctor.
I guess they could probably duplicate the accident if they want, after all we have seen SF guys achieving some quite incredible things.

[Tyyr]

Yes, that is what i say and i maintain my argument, i don't think is just he was running for a long time but that along with the series of events we already know, though i do believe the others Mk I's could have a similar result under similar circumstances.
Just imagine a Mk I all day sitting in the sickbay facing the wall waiting for a patient; i don't think he would have accomplished much in the way to sapience all by himself and without the freedoms and support granted to him by Janeway and crew.

Well on that I think we're agreed. Staring at the wall won't help however I think that in the process of being left on a program like the Doctor's isn't going to be content to just stare at the wall all day waiting for a patient. Janeway might have given the Doctor some leeway but remember that most of the time it was the Doctor pushing for that leeway.

[thelordharry]

You also get the impression that a 'photonic' is quite a high resource overhead so I guess there's no point in him being on when he's not needed. Does he only then learn and grow when activated? Is there any subconsious? I'm pretty sure linear time ceases for hologrammes when they're off with the only exception being Moriarty?

[Mikey]

Yes, that is what i say and i maintain my argument, i don't think is just he was running for a long time but that along with the series of events we already know, though i do believe the others Mk I's could have a similar result under similar circumstances.
Just imagine a Mk I all day sitting in the sickbay facing the wall waiting for a patient; i don't think he would have accomplished much in the way to sapience all by himself and without the freedoms and support granted to him by Janeway and crew.

Fair enough, but I think the only additional circumstance needed for the EMH to develop sapience, in addition to being left running, was interaction with people a/o something to do.

Does he only then learn and grow when activated? Is there any subconsious?

Since the Doctor was the first example of a sapient Mk I, I'd guess the answer to be yes - he only does grow when activated. Psychoanalysis might break down when discussing a hologram, but I'd say what we term the "subconscious" would have a more mechanical analog - "base personality matrix" or some such, an heuristic developed to mimic the superego.

[thelordharry]

Since the Doctor was the first example of a sapient Mk I, I'd guess the answer to be yes - he only does grow when activated. Psychoanalysis might break down when discussing a hologram, but I'd say what we term the "subconscious" would have a more mechanical analog - "base personality matrix" or some such, an heuristic developed to mimic the superego

Say what now Mikey?

[Mikey]

"Subconscious" really relates to a Freudian or psychoanalytical school of thought about psychology. This would have to be modified to apply to an artifical being, but would generally relate to the function of the human "superego" which helps to regulate the urges of the "id," which is the part of us responsible for all of our base, animal urges.

[SomosFuga]

Well on that I think we're agreed. Staring at the wall won't help however I think that in the process of being left on a program like the Doctor's isn't going to be content to just stare at the wall all day waiting for a patient. Janeway might have given the Doctor some leeway but remember that most of the time it was the Doctor pushing for that leeway.

True.
Know we have a new question: Any other Mk I would have done the same? referring to the pushing for that leeway.
I think so because AFAIK originally its programs are the same, just copy-paste.

[Mark]

If given similar circumstances, options, and help then most likely yes.

[Mikey]

That was my point in saying no outside influence or cosmic-doom-of-the-week was necessary for the Doctor to develop sapience. Just a long runtime and some human interaction.