Species of the week: Androids

[Tsukiyumi]

Yeah, because a human stranded in the middle of a forrest with a broken leg is realy going to have an easier time than a machine. Let's just hope he doesn't get hungry.

Yeah, didn't you guys read Stephen King's The Stand?

[Captain Seafort]

Yeah, didn't you guys read Stephen King's The Stand?

No - his writing style gives me a headache. What's it about?

[Blackstar the Chakat]

Yeah, because a human stranded in the middle of a forrest with a broken leg is realy going to have an easier time than a machine. Let's just hope he doesn't get hungry

That wasn't the point. A machine with no repair kit would be unable to repair itself. A human could McGyver a cast until the bones heal. You also brought up something else that could be a problem. Humans can eat to restore energy, and our digestive systems are far more versitile then an android. An android would lose power and even memory if left too long with out a plug.

Initialy we'd be the same (assuming there's only one model out there), but we'd then move apart from one another. For example, I might want increased memory, while someone else may want faster processing power. Someone might want a built-in connection to the internet, while another wouldn't. Someone might want a built in defensive weapon, while someone else might just prefer armour.
As you can see, there would be major differences.

True, but there are still commonalities. For instance, there are hundreds of different computer models even custom built one but many still share components. Then there is the operating system. An estimated 95% of computers use Windows or a Windows derived operating systems, most of which have similar or many identicle flaws. These flaws are often exploted.

I have a teacher who has access to the latest counter-virus programs, sometimes even programs that haven't been released to the public(he's had access to many beta programs including even worse versions of Vista) and he's still been infected from time to time. He has a disc full of viruses that he's been able to isolate and copy. Just loading the disk could destroy a computer's database. Now if it had been his body it could wipe out a person's memories. Or if someone were tricked into loading such a disk into their system, what they were will be wiped out. A whole new way to die is born.

[Tsukiyumi]

No - his writing style gives me a headache. What's it about?

That's a shame. I consider some of his work among the best fiction ever written. Here's a simple summary of The Stand:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Stand

The reason I brought it up is that two different characters suffer broken legs in the middle of nowhere (read the summary; it makes sense), and no one is coming to their rescue. The situation is rather grim and nasty, when you think of it: like the fellow who amputated his own leg with a utility knife after it was crushed and left him trapped under a boulder.

Most humans would die within a few days if stuck in the wilderness with a grievous injury like a broken leg.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

Most humans would survive however they have a greater chance to survive without support then an android. An android has to be regularly maintained and recharged to survive. A human body can survive under extreme circumstances, assuming that the person hasn't given up. It may be heavily injured but it would survive. An android with no support and without anyone coming to its rescue would eventually lose power and the individual person would be lost.

[Teaos]

But Androids have greater "will power" They will keep going until the physically cant anymore. Humans could just give up.

[Tsukiyumi]

Humans can't survive more than a few days without water. Unless you lucked out and broke your leg near a stream, in an area with upcoming rainfall, or near water-laden plants, you are in serious trouble. You would likely lose consciousness if you tried to move more than a few feet per day.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

but we're talking about androids with human brains. They might last longer before giving up because actual pain wouldn't affect them(in theory) but they could give up just as easily.

Oh, and I just thought of another potential problem. Androids can't reproduce. At least not in the human way. Sure they can build a new body, but the human mind or soul(if you believe in one) cannot be reproduced so easily.(For those of you who don't believe in souls, focus on the mind part when arguing about this.) And they also can't feel physical pleasure. Now if given the choice between being able to feel physical pain and pleasure and not being able to feel either, I would rather feel.

[Tsukiyumi]

I would certainly rather feel as well. I often say that given the choice of a long, bland existance, or a short enjoyable one, I'll do what I please during the time I have.

[Mikey]

A machine with no repair kit would be unable to repair itself. A human could McGyver a cast until the bones heal.

So, a human could jury-rig something in the absence of medical supplies, but an android couldn't - especially, as YOU stated, and android with a human brain? Please explain how that makes any sense at all.

Oh, and Seafort and Rochey beat me to the ounch, but the constant need for new vaccines and antibiotics, as well as the appearance of things like MRSA, are points against your argument, not for it. These just prove that humans have as little resistance to the evolution of threats, if not less, as androids would.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

A machine with no repair kit would be unable to repair itself. A human could McGyver a cast until the bones heal.

So, a human could jury-rig something in the absence of medical supplies, but an android couldn't - especially, as YOU stated, and android with a human brain? Please explain how that makes any sense at all.

Well, if an android is stronger then a human it is logical to assume that it's heavier and it would be more difficult to find materials capable of supporting them. They also can't repair themselves, whereas a human with enough time could heal a broken bone without medical support, which is my point. An android would need replacement parts or else it would constantly have to replace the jury-rigged cast as long as it lacks support or appropriate materials for repairs.

[Mikey]

Academic. If the human suffered a compound fracture, for example, he would die of shock and blood loss - or if he were lucky, of dehydration and exposure. If not, and the human managed to jury-rig a setting, the set would be medically wrong and would lead to partial usage at best - the same as if the anfroid jury-rigged the repair.

[mwhittington]

I wonder if this is how the Borg were created("We were like them once: flawed, weak, organic. But we evolved to include the synthetic"). As for humans, we're weaker than most other animals out there because we no longer live as animals. We live in houses, not caves. We go to the supermarkets in our vehicles to buy food, not go out to hunt on foot with our clubs or homemade spears. Androids, on the other hand, are the creation of a HUMAN, try having an android create just one single celled organism. This actually reminds me of a joke: One day, a scientist goes up to God and says, " God, I'm sorry, but I believe we've we're to the point where we don't need you anymore." God says, "Well, let's have a contest. We'll create life, the old fashioned way, like I did originally." The scientist agrees, and begins to pick up a handfull of dirt."Uh-uh-uh," says God, "You make your own dirt." 8)

[Sionnach Glic]

That wasn't the point. A machine with no repair kit would be unable to repair itself. A human could McGyver a cast until the bones heal.

And an android could continuing functioning on its remaining three limbs with ease, and without pain.

An android would lose power and even memory if left too long with out a plug.

With a properly advanced power source, it would be easy for a machine to continue functioning long past a human life span even without recharging.

Now if it had been his body it could wipe out a person's memories. Or if someone were tricked into loading such a disk into their system, what they were will be wiped out.

That's why you have backups. Simply carrying a memory chip around in some sort of built in storage unit, completely disconnected from you, would be able to restore your memories perfectly to the time you last updated it.
You keep going on about the dangers of electronic virii, but the threat seems to be far overrated. If it was so easy, why havn't terrorists crashed the Wall Street Market? Why hasn't every computer in the world sucumbed to a virus? Why are we still able to keep corresponding through a computer? The possibility of a Skynet-esque takeover is incredibly low. Much lower than the chance of the human race being wiped out by a virus, which all machines wouldn't even need to concern themselves with anymore.
Yes, electronic virii are a danger, but organic virii are a much greater threat. One which we could be free from.

A whole new way to die is born.

And hundreds of ways of dying are gotten rid of. Seems like a fair trade to me.

They might last longer before giving up because actual pain wouldn't affect them(in theory) but they could give up just as easily.

What does giving up have to do with it? The fact remains that androids could physicaly last longer than an organic counterpart. Whether the person is too foolish to make use of their new abilities is irrelevant.

Androids can't reproduce. At least not in the human way.

Why not? Manufacture sperm. Put it into a mechanical penis-equivilant, and just go from there. You could have an artificial womb in females (or even males if they are so inclined) which could hold the feotus. Then simply remove it from the body, and transfer its mind into a machine.

And they also can't feel physical pleasure.

Sure they could. All you need are sensors in the apropriate areas, which respond to the correct stimulii, and transmit the correct messages to the brain (CPU?).

Well, if an android is stronger then a human it is logical to assume that it's heavier and it would be more difficult to find materials capable of supporting them

It would also be able to go far longer without materials capable of suporting them than a human equivelant.

They also can't repair themselves, whereas a human with enough time could heal a broken bone without medical support, which is my point.

And a machine could simply ignore the damage. It can still function with three limbs.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

To answer your computer virus question I must ask: what makes you think a terrorist could do something 'professinal' hackers can't? To say it should't be a concern because no one has taken down Wall Street is like saying you shouldn't be worried about someone breaking into your house because no one has broken into Fort Knox.

And if we move into android bodies computer viruses will become even more common and deadly. I sure don't want to die because I had a system crash.

And manufacturing sperm and reproductive organs? That's a little too inhuman. And from the way you put it the child in question wouldn't have a choice. Which brings up some other points. Will Androids look down on their organic counterparts? Will being a heavily upgraded android make him better then an android who can't afford it? A new and easier way to compare abilities will exist and human nature is competitive(in one way or another).

Creating superior humans by replacing 'weak' flesh with android bodys or genetic enhancements is foolish. Each of us gained our abilities through work. As such we learned how to use those abilities and respect what they can do. An android simply buys new components or downloads the right program, and it'll be like a kid who found his father's gun. They have no idea how to use it properly.

Creating a better body is one thing, creating a better human is the real problem.