musings on the most famous of grudges

Monroe · Post by **Monroe** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:25 am

From what we can gather from the Enterprise episode about that starving colony the Klingons demand for resources in exchange for increased trade or supplies. The Klingons in reality don't live up to their end of the bargin and use the subjugated races as unarmed people to be bullied out of their resources. So the klingons don't actually make what would normally be seen as a lasting Empire but instead just a series of worlds they can easily raid for needed materials and resources.

But we only have one ship and one colony for that conclusion so..

Deepcrush · Post by **Deepcrush** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:00 pm

That would make it very hard for the klingons to rebuild any type of power base be it economic or military.

Post by **Teaos** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:49 pm

Maybe the Klingons in TOS era were more oppresive to their slave worlds due to them being pissed off about their cosmetic looks.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:04 pm

That seems possible.

Post by **Mikey** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:54 pm

But keeping a completely subjugated populace in thtat state will always be a tenuous situation. The Klingons may be brutal (to delicate human sensibilities,) but they are NOT stupid. I know there have been examples of regional governors and such bureaucracy, but keeping races subjugated, rather than tributary, on an interstellar basis is just shy of completely unfeasible.

Granitehewer · Post by **Granitehewer** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:28 pm

I agree with mikey, think of the bureaucracy required, clearly its possible but not probable

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 5:48 pm

It would be difficult, but not imposible if you have the manpower and resources. And it pretty much is the easiest way to explain away the lack of subject races.

Granitehewer · Post by **Granitehewer** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:25 pm

A subject race, can be absent from the mainstream society of the dominant group, or at low visibility presence and hence not often seen,per se, without that vassal group being exploited en masse for forced labour etc.
I tend to think that alot of the klingons' subject races, would be severely curtailed in their political ambitions or abilities to travel from their homeworlds and settlements,and thus spread any potentially counterproductive or contagious ideologies that might run contrary to the belief system of the dominant race/government, almost like how the kremlin, used to limit the movement of many of the siberian indigenous tribal groups(or indeed, how the soviet propaganda films,often featured orthodox christian, slavic, european russians and russians from the caucasus, rather than the finno-ungrian or ''oriental'' central asian and turkeman troops,that were in prevalance), the groups may have been numerous but they were never 'on display' or emancipated but were 'localised'.
Perhaps the subjects of the star trek empires, are common, but localised, and that locale, happens to be away from the eyes and influences of other powers...

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:30 pm

Good theory. That is quite possible.

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:31 pm

It isn't just the Klingon and Romulan Empires that appear to be monospecies - the Federation itself tends towards being the "homo-sapiens only club" that Azetbur accused it of being in ST6. From Enterprise we know that it was founded with the assistance of Vulcan, Tellar and Andor, and from First Contact that there are 150 member worlds. Despite this how many non-humans do we see in Starfleet? Very few. That isn't to say that the others aren't there, as we do see them from time to time, but nowhere near the frequency that we see humans. Were Trek to be made from a Klingon or Romulan perspective it's possible, or even likely, that it would give the impression of the Federation being a purely human empire.

Granitehewer · Post by **Granitehewer** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:33 pm

hit the nail on the head there,seafort, its actually a point of resentment for me,that the multiculture utopia,seems,well, a less than...

Granitehewer · Post by **Granitehewer** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:34 pm

*a little less than

Post by **Mikey** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:19 pm

Excellent point, Captain S. Can humans really have that much higher a birth rate than any other species?

Post by **Teaos** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:02 am

Probably has a lot to do with Starfleet academt being on Earth. If a human doesn't know what to do they go join Starfleet were as a Andorian would have a bot of a harder time doing that. Maybe a lot of those 150 species don't like fighting as a whole. only say 30 would consider it.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:50 pm

Do we know for certain that the acadamey on Earth is the only one?
If it is, it brings the Federation to whole new levels of stupidity...

Regarding the Federations population, I always felt that Starfleet was pretty much handed to the humans. I see the Federation as employing a sort of 'caste' system for different races.
Humans are the warriors, Vulcans the diplomats and scientists, Androians and Thelarites for...er....whatever they do. Clearly it isn't enforced or in law, but its probably what's 'expected' of every race.