What have ships done without warp cores?

[Teaos]

Top of the line for someone 50+ years behind the Feds

[Duskofdead]

Top of the line for someone 50+ years behind the Feds

*Turns on the lights*

How many lights do you see, Teaos?

[Mikey]

A fusion reactor would have to be huge compared to the equivalent M/AM reactor, as well. The more limited scope of impulse engine reactors is probably what limits the number of available shots with the phasers when the WC is offline. But yes, the common sense answer, suported by numerous canon incidents, is that weapons don't go offline just because the WC does.

But this is feasible in the case of DS9. Several Galaxy-sized starships could comfortably dock at the same time at DS9, the thing is rather large when you think about it. It could fit a fusion power generation system equal to the entire size of a medium sized starship.

Of course. This has little bearing on what I said. I was referring to the fact that the reason M/AM reactors are used on ships rather than fusion reactors is because of the size for equivalent output, not because fusion reactors are incapable of the necessary requirements.

[Duskofdead]

Of course. This has little bearing on what I said. I was referring to the fact that the reason M/AM reactors are used on ships rather than fusion reactors is because of the size for equivalent output, not because fusion reactors are incapable of the necessary requirements.

Well I didn't mean a rebuttal to that. I was just chiming in on the fact that a warp core is not necessary for phaser power, but you need a bigger fusion generator to put out the same power as a M/AM.

[Mikey]

Oh. Ok, then... yep.

[Teaos]

Well I didn't mean a rebuttal to that. I was just chiming in on the fact that a warp core is not necessary for phaser power, but you need a bigger fusion generator to put out the same power as a M/AM.

And due to that fact it is pretty pointless to have a secondary power unit for phasers. Since it would either be stupidly weak or stupidly big.

[Captain Seafort]

And due to that fact it is pretty pointless to have a secondary power unit for phasers. Since it would either be stupidly weak or stupidly big.

Again, ST2 refutes this - the E-nil was operating with severe damage, and warp power off-line for most of the film, and its weapons were still doing as much damage as the Reliant's.

[Teaos]

They could have been running off left over warp power, kept in a reserve or something.

We know of no alternative power unit on board that can come close to a warp core.

[Captain Seafort]

They could have been running off left over warp power, kept in a reserve or something.

Left over warp power? You can't have left over power - it's inherently impossible. Left over energy, perhaps, but Scotty specifically stated that the batteries were only good for "a few shots" in the first encounter. Later, Spock stated (after auxillary power had been restored) than the Reliant could still outrun and outgun the Emterprise, but the phaser hits during the Mutara battle seemed to do about the same amount of damage. Presumably the "outgun" Spock mentioned refered to the ships' ability to break through each others shields.

We know of no alternative power unit on board that can come close to a warp core.

We do - the impulse engines, as Riker commented on in BoBW. If the impulse engines werem't capable of producing a significant fraction of the power produced by the warp core, there would be no point in dragging the mass of the saucer section around.

[Teaos]

Maybe they underestmated the amount of power the battries had.

And comparing a phser hit from the Enterprise to Reliant is not the same as Reliant to Enterprise. Maybe the Enterprise could take a hit better and thus a more powerful shot would do the same damage as a less powerful shot to a weaker target.

We do - the impulse engines, as Riker commented on in BoBW. If the impulse engines werem't capable of producing a significant fraction of the power produced by the warp core, there would be no point in dragging the mass of the saucer section around.

Doesnt the saucer section also carry a lot more torpedoes and phaser arrays? Thus there is good reason to bring it along.

[Captain Seafort]

Maybe they underestmated the amount of power the battries had.

It was Scotty who said this - the bloke who designed the refitted Enterprise.

And comparing a phser hit from the Enterprise to Reliant is not the same as Reliant to Enterprise. Maybe the Enterprise could take a hit better and thus a more powerful shot would do the same damage as a less powerful shot to a weaker target.

If anything the Reliant should be the more resilient ship at this point - it had a more compact design, and had suffered far less from the previous encounter.

Doesnt the saucer section also carry a lot more torpedoes and phaser arrays? Thus there is good reason to bring it along.

The reference was, specifically "we may need added power from the saucer module impulse engines".

[Teaos]

The reference was, specifically "we may need added power from the saucer module impulse engines".

All that means is that it creates more than it uses. Not a stretch if they turn all the labs and stuff off.

[Mikey]

Well I didn't mean a rebuttal to that. I was just chiming in on the fact that a warp core is not necessary for phaser power, but you need a bigger fusion generator to put out the same power as a M/AM.

And due to that fact it is pretty pointless to have a secondary power unit for phasers. Since it would either be stupidly weak or stupidly big.

True - the impulse engines are secondary power generators that are already in place, which can also be used for the phasers. They're not put on board specifically and solely to provide backup power for the phasers.

[Duskofdead]

The Galaxy class can fire phasers in separated flight mode, where access to the M/AM is cut off entirely. (Sorry, not sure if this was mentioned already.) Although to what degree recharge rates or power outputs may be compromised is entirely guesswork.

[kostmayer]

In the first encounter, Scottie states that they have enough for a few shots and Spock says that they aren't enough against the Reliants Shields. The phaser blasts themselves might have been as powerful as ever, they just could fire enough shots to be effective.

If the Mutara Nebula battle, neither ships had shields, and The Enterprises few shots, which would have increased since they had partial main power restored, would do more damage.

Also, if I remember rightly, The Enterprise is hit broad side on, whilst the Reliant is hit near the bridge, hence the falling roof and squished sidekicks. That was about the only time that Khan lands a hit, the next encounter the Enterprise sneaks up behind into a prime firing position, and again goes after the weak areas (pod and engines).