Species of the week: Androids

[Mikey]

If you create better security someone will create a better virus.

And as we create better antibiotics, nature responds with better bacteria. This metaphor doesn't show the superiority of humans over androids - it merely shows that androids may have one or two fo the same flaws. And I have given an example of how it is easier to subvert a human than an android.

Then why are you here?

What does that mean? Are you saying that you don't know why humankind exists, or that people who don't share your religious views shouldn't be in existence? I have just as much right to be here as you do, even though I know that this idea of a "soul" is fallacious.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

Are you saying you would handle that situation differently if you were an android? If yes then I wonder if you lost what makes you human. If no then that's another flaw they would share.

What does that mean?

I meant no offense. What I mean is, if there is no after life, nothing after this life then what is the purpose of being here in the first place?

[Sionnach Glic]

If you create better security someone will create a better virus.

And then you create a better security system. The same as they do with real computer systems.

Even if you remain here, eventually everything will end. That is one unchangeable fact of life. Everything has a beginning and an end. Anything that doesn't is unreal. And nothing unreal exists.

You're right that everything ends. What I should have said, was that a greatly increased lifespan would be far better than living as a normal human.

Then why are you here?

Because my parents had sex. I don't believe any of us are here for any particular reason, we just are.

As a matter of fact yes. Just because they improved something doesn't make them perfect.

Again, you're right. I thought Peabody was implying that there was something wrong with the creation of sentient machines.

It takes much longer then a single generation.

Exactly. Machines could develop a resistance in a fraction of that time.

Since androids would be uniform in construction there is a much greater risk of all the androids being deactivated by the same thing.

What I'm talking about is downloading a persons mind (such as myself) into a mechanical body. Now, that would mean that, maybe, initialy we'd be the same (assuming there's only one model out there), but we'd then move apart from one another. For example, I might want increased memory, while someone else may want faster processing power. Someone might want a built-in connection to the internet, while another wouldn't. Someone might want a built in defensive weapon, while someone else might just prefer armour.
As you can see, there would be major differences.

[Captain Seafort]

If you create better security someone will create a better virus.

Take that approach and there's no point in doing anything, because it wont last forever.

Even if you remain here, eventually everything will end. That is one unchangeable fact of life. Everything has a beginning and an end. Anything that doesn't is unreal. And nothing unreal exists.

Translation: I can't concieve of such a thing therefore it doesn't exist.

I don't believe in a soul, and I certainly don't believe in an afterlife.

Then why are you here?

42

It takes much longer then a single generation. It could be a hundred years before true immunity appears, probably longer. If the 6 billion humans were all hit with a large dose of lethal radiation, and there were only 1% that could develop an immunity and only 1% do survive and develop an immunity that's still 600,000 people left alive.

But billions would die whereas androids, being artificial, would be a lot more resilient. Just that a blow that would smash a human's skull only dents metal.

The United States is the greatest example of this. Despite all it's problems it is the strongest government in terms of money and pure strength.

And the vast natural resources of the American continent had nothing whatever to do with this?

[Tsukiyumi]

What I mean is, if there is no after life, nothing after this life then what is the purpose of being here in the first place?

Not that I'm disagreeing with you, Blackstar, but not everything has a purpose. Like Rob Schneider films.

[DarkOmen]

42

QFT lol

[Teaos]

Yeah our brains are a huge advantage but still why can't we have really good eye sight or hearing as well?

As for why we're here? Because we evolved over a period of time due to enviromental circumstances. There is no greater reason to life, We live we pass on our genetic make up then we die. Just like all other creatures.

[Thorin]

Because my parents had sex.

Eugghhhh

[Blackstar the Chakat]

But billions would die whereas androids, being artificial, would be a lot more resilient. Just that a blow that would smash a human's skull only dents metal.

Sorry, but that wasn't my point. If there was a flaw in a certain component with a criticle flaw anyone built with that flaw could be wiped out because of it. While it might be easier to repair, it is also easier to do damage. Human bodies on the other hand are all different so a virus can't affect two people in the same way. That does create problems with 'repairing' the problem, but it does have proven advantages. Human bodies are time tested and can adapt themselves. Androids are not proven and any adaptation would require inginuity on the part of the human minded android. Something they often lack.

And the vast natural resources of the American continent had nothing whatever to do with this?

Well everything plays a factor in the final result(butterfly effect) but the middle east also has a large amount of resources, Especially oil, but they are one of the most devided areas in the world. It's the diversity of our resources that help make us strong.

[Sionnach Glic]

If there was a flaw in a certain component with a criticle flaw anyone built with that flaw could be wiped out because of it. While it might be easier to repair, it is also easier to do damage. Human bodies on the other hand are all different so a virus can't affect two people in the same way.

And, as I pointed out, why do all androids have to be exactly the same?

Human bodies are time tested and can adapt themselves. Androids are not proven and any adaptation would require inginuity on the part of the human minded android.

A machine would be far quicker to repair and to adapt to specific circumstances.

Something they often lack.

It doesn't take that much ingenuity that they couldn't figure it out. For example:
I have X. Z can destroy X. I need something that can defend against Z.
A few supercomputers devoted to designing new upgraded models of androids would solve the problem nicely.

[Captain Seafort]

Sorry, but that wasn't my point. If there was a flaw in a certain component with a criticle flaw anyone built with that flaw could be wiped out because of it. While it might be easier to repair, it is also easier to do damage. Human bodies on the other hand are all different so a virus can't affect two people in the same way. That does create problems with 'repairing' the problem, but it does have proven advantages. Human bodies are time tested and can adapt themselves. Androids are not proven and any adaptation would require inginuity on the part of the human minded android. Something they often lack.

1) A truly sapient android (ie Turing test passable) would not just be the equal but the superior of a human in terms of problem solving. Rather than having to wait until inspiration came to it, it would have instant recall of everything it ever experienced, and would be able to analyse the outcomes of dozens, hundreds or thousands of possible solutions in less time than it took Archemedies to shout "Eureka".

2) If you're suggesting we ignore the huge advantages of androids over humans simply because they might be vulnerable to something that humans might "adapt" to, then you're being bloody stupid.

Well everything plays a factor in the final result(butterfly effect) but the middle east also has a large amount of resources, Especially oil, but they are one of the most devided areas in the world. It's the diversity of our resources that help make us strong.

America's greatest strength was indeed it's diverse resources, most importantly coal (and later oil), iron ore, and farmland. This combination allowed it to build vast numbers of weapons, and feed the men to operate them. The diversity of the population was irrelevent in comparison to this. The Middle East doesn't have anything like the natural resources the American continent had, despite its vast wealth of oil.

[Mikey]

Are you saying you would handle that situation differently if you were an android? If yes then I wonder if you lost what makes you human. If no then that's another flaw they would share.

Of course! That's a fundamental difference between humans and androids. For different reasons, either can be considered superior to the other. The point is, your argument agaisnt androids due to the possibility for subversion of free will applies equally, if not more so, to humans.

What I mean is, if there is no after life, nothing after this life then what is the purpose of being here in the first place?

The purpose is to live and experience THIS life instead of worrying about the next one.

so a virus can't affect two people in the same way.

But they do, all over the world every day.

42

LOL!

[Blackstar the Chakat]

so a virus can't affect two people in the same way.

But they do, all over the world every day

No, there are many similarities and treatments often have similar effects, but if every virus acted the same with every person then we wouldn't need to create new vaccines for the same things. Some people can be born with natural immunity to certain diseases, while others could die from the same disease. A good example is rheumatoid arthritis. One type of medication works better for him while a family friend of ours is using a medication that had no beneficial effect on my father.

And, as I pointed out, why do all androids have to be exactly the same?

They don't but manufacturing often leads to commonalities among major concerns. Since I doubt people will manufacture their own parts there will be some commonalities. That's why a factory can have massive recalls of something a flawed item they manufactured.

A machine would be far quicker to repair and to adapt to specific circumstances

in theory. However if the part was not readable available, or if the material to adapt was not available a machine would be useless. A biological body can repair itself, maybe longer then a non-organic body would take to repair, but a biological can repair itself with enough energy. If an android ejected from an aircraft and found itself damaged in the middle of a forest (like a broken leg)it would have little hope for repair. A biological body could repair itself given enough time.

[Captain Seafort]

if every virus acted the same with every person then we wouldn't need to create new vaccines for the same things.

We don't need new vaccines for the same thing - we need new vaccines for mutations of that disease.

If an android ejected from an aircraft and found itself damaged in the middle of a forest (like a broken leg)it would have little hope for repair. A biological body could repair itself given enough time.

The android would also be far less likely to suffer damage in the first place, and wouldn't be suffering from blood loss and shock the way a biological body would. If the android has a repair kit it can repair its leg far more effectively than a human could. If the leg is beyond repair then remove it and lash a decent-sized dod of wood in place as a jury-rigged replacement.

[Sionnach Glic]

but if every virus acted the same with every person then we wouldn't need to create new vaccines for the same things.

Er, we create new vaccines because the virii evolve. Not because everyone needs a different vaccine.

They don't but manufacturing often leads to commonalities among major concerns. Since I doubt people will manufacture their own parts there will be some commonalities. That's why a factory can have massive recalls of something a flawed item they manufactured.

Initialy we'd be the same (assuming there's only one model out there), but we'd then move apart from one another. For example, I might want increased memory, while someone else may want faster processing power. Someone might want a built-in connection to the internet, while another wouldn't. Someone might want a built in defensive weapon, while someone else might just prefer armour.
As you can see, there would be major differences.

However if the part was not readable available, or if the material to adapt was not available a machine would be useless.

No, it wouldn't. An android could re-route systems and power around damaged systems, to keep functioning. A human can't. And keep in mind, in a society where a large percent of the population are androids, they would literaly be able to walk into a shop and pick up the part they need. Or they could have a built in connection to the internet, and have it delivered to them. Or, if they're really badly damaged, they could just send out an alert to whatever equivelant of a hospital they have, and an ambulance could be dispatched.

A biological body can repair itself, maybe longer then a non-organic body would take to repair, but a biological can repair itself with enough energy.

So? It takes far less force to injure a human than it would to damage a machine. And serious injuries, such as a broken leg or arm, would be unlikely to heal properly without medical assistance, and would take far longer to repair.

If an android ejected from an aircraft and found itself damaged in the middle of a forest (like a broken leg)it would have little hope for repair.

Unless it just crawled to the nearest area of habitation (it wouldn't feel pain, so there's nothing stopping it). Or it could just send out an alert, like I described above. Or it could just temporarily shut itself down, and reactivate when someone found it.

A biological body could repair itself given enough time.

Yeah, because a human stranded in the middle of a forrest with a broken leg is realy going to have an easier time than a machine. Let's just hope he doesn't get hungry.