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GrahamKennedy wrote:But was she A science officer or THE science officer? Surely any officer who works in a science department would be considered as a "Starfleet Science Officer", but that doesn't make them the department head.

Exactly my point.

Captain Seafort wrote:You mean like Neela Darren, who was head of stellar cartography, outranked Worf, and was not part of the senior staff.

That's exactly what I mean - Darren's tenure on the E-D was short-lived; but while there, though not officially posted to the senior staff in a tangible way, was in a de facto matter closely consulted by the "senior staff" in matters involving her department. Such an unofficial, but obvious, arrangement involving Wildman would satisfy my contention in this case as well.

Captain Seafort wrote:On occasion. Rarely, but she was occasionally consulted.

I don't recall, but that's why I asked. I guess that question should be clarified to ask if she was ever considered the voice of the science department - operationally.

Captain Seafort wrote:The key problem was that Janeway was both a science branch officer herself and prone to micromanagement, so she tended to refer to herself (as usual) rather than Wildman.

The effect is what's at stake here. The reasons behind the effect - even poor management skills - are immaterial.

Captain Seafort wrote:Indeed, so why do you mention it?

I wasn't aware that senility set in so early in the UKoGBaNI.

Mikey wrote: I wasn't aware that senility set in so early in the UKoGBaNI.

I'm sorry, who are you again?

Until Seven, I wanna say Harry. Post-Seven, then Seven.

So the vote is in favour of 7. But I thought she was astrometrics chief? Was she ever really consulted for something that a science officer would normally deal with?

Yep, especially astrometrics.

What would the Astrometrics Head be called. Astrometrics Chief?

alexmann wrote:What would the Astrometrics Head be called. Astrometrics Chief?

Generally, she was called "Seven." Referring to her by her brevet rank would also be appropriate.

Mikey wrote:Referring to her by her brevet rank would also be appropriate.

Did Seven even have any formal position. And to nitpick, the Maquis would almost certainly have had acting rank rather than brevets.

Whats the difference?

Captain Seafort wrote:

Mikey wrote:Referring to her by her brevet rank would also be appropriate.

Did Seven even have any formal position. And to nitpick, the Maquis would almost certainly have had acting rank rather than brevets.

I don't recall her official position, but surely she would have had some rank in order to function effectively. As to brevet vs. active, who cares what the Maquis were given? I was talking about Seven.

In "Nightingale" though Janeway specifically said that seven had no rank.

Mikey wrote:I don't recall her official position, but surely she would have had some rank in order to function effectively.

Why? There were effectively only two ranks on Voyager - "God-Empress" and "Underling".

As to brevet vs. active, who cares what the Maquis were given? I was talking about Seven.

Seven would have been in exactly the same position - she wasn't Starfleet, therefore it's highly unlikely that she would have had brevet rank. It refers specifically to rank granted within the armed forces as a whole, but which does not apply within the officer's own unit. Since the Maquis' and Seven's ranks (if she had one) obviously applied to Voyager, and they had no position otherwise, they would almost certainly have been given acting (or possibly local) rank, not brevets.

Captain Seafort wrote:Why? There were effectively only two ranks on Voyager - "God-Empress" and "Underling".

I'm not talking about Janeway's perception - that was so out of touch with reality that it almost defies discussion.

Captain Seafort wrote: Seven would have been in exactly the same position - she wasn't Starfleet, therefore it's highly unlikely that she would have had brevet rank. It refers specifically to rank granted within the armed forces as a whole, but which does not apply within the officer's own unit. Since the Maquis' and Seven's ranks (if she had one) obviously applied to Voyager, and they had no position otherwise, they would almost certainly have been given acting (or possibly local) rank, not brevets.

Perhaps I'm using the term incorrectly. Seven's imperious nature certainly implied, to me, some reality-based authority, though of course she just might have been emulating Ilkhan Janeway.

alexmann wrote:In "Nightingale" though Janeway specifically said that seven had no rank.

I didn't recall that. How far along Seven's tenure on Voyager was that?

Mikey wrote:I'm not talking about Janeway's perception - that was so out of touch with reality that it almost defies discussion.

When discussing Voyager's operations, Janeway's perception, however far out of whack with Starfleet regulation, sanity or reality it is, is the only one that matters.

Seven's imperious nature certainly implied, to me, some reality-based authority, though of course she just might have been emulating Ilkhan Janeway.

Exactly. Reality, sanity and regulations are irrelevant. Janeway's whim is all that matters.

I didn't recall that. How far along Seven's tenure on Voyager was that?

A good few years - it was a season seven ep.