BETA SIM IC THREAD

[Lt. Staplic]

OOC:

Okay real quick here, 1. The only people IC who would know about the events of Insurrection are the Federation, Son'a, and Baku. So that quote shouldn't be happening at all. However for the sake of continuity:

a public trial was held for all that were involved, with all Starfleet personnel involved punished according to involvement (directly involved were released, negligence were reprimanded and reduced in rank). The Son'a were prosecuted for attempted genocide, and the Federation made a formal apology to Captain Picard and the Baku and made the requested reparations (which were minimal due to the Baku's lifestyle.)

Because of the publicity around such acts news of the indecent spread to the nearby powers.

From now on, consider weather or not you would actually know the information your pulling from canon before posting it please.

[BigJKU316]

THE ASSEMBLY IS UNPREPAIRED FOR THE HYPOCRACY OF THE FEDERATION. WAS THE WHOLE OF STARFLEET AND YOUR FEDERATION COUNCIL PUNISHED FOR ATTEMPTING FOR FORCEABLY STEAL A PLANET FROM ITS INHABITANTS? IT IS OUR UNDERSTANDING THAT ROMULAN FORCES ASSISTED YOURS IN THE BATTLE TO STOP SAID WEAPON AND RENDERED COMFORT, AID, AND HUMANITARION ASSISTANCE TO THE CREW OF ONE OF YOUR STARSHIPS.

While we grow weary of repeating ourselves we must again point out the key here. They were PUNISHED for their actions and held to account by the government. We do not hide from our mistakes. Those who engaged in them were put on public and open trial and punished for their actions.

The Federation could have just swept the incident under the rug, it having happened wholly inside our territory but we did not.

We also object to the Tholians inserting themselves into this matter in any form. We do not presume to tell the Tholians whom to open their border to and would ask the same courtesy from them. We would also ask that they remember that despite the bi-lateral nature of any arrangement with the Romulan Star Empire that almost all the practical concessions will be made by the Federation. The chances of the Federation passing trade ships through Romulan space are slim to none.

So when we discuss this what we are talking about is exclusively Romulan ships crossing Federation space. We will not open our border until such time as we feel we can trust the Romulans. Others are free to make their own decisions about their own borders, which we will respect fully.

[Nickswitz]

You are claiming that you punished those responsible, and yet disallow our statements that all those who were involved have been duly punished, including from past relations that I was not a part of. So you are claiming that if you do it it make you right, but if the Romulans do it they are still not to be trusted?

[BigJKU316]

You are claiming that you punished those responsible, and yet disallow our statements that all those who were involved have been duly punished, including from past relations that I was not a part of. So you are claiming that if you do it it make you right, but if the Romulans do it they are still not to be trusted?

*Sigh* We claim nothing of the sort. As yours is a closed society we have no idea who was punished and in what manner they were punished. Your claims may or may not be true. What we have stated is that your statement that no one can be found who was involved in any of those activities is not something we consider sufficient.

Each power can decide on their own if the measures taken by the Federation were sufficient or not in regards to our mistakes (and we, like any other power have made them). That is their right. In the same vein it is our right to decide when and under what terms to recommence formal relations with a power that committed an act of war against the Federation. We are under no obligation to do so until the issues between our two governments are resolved to our satisfaction.

[Reliant121]

With all due respect, how is closing the borders in any way helpful to the situation? Yes, it might guarantee a degree of safety but if you want Romulan transparency, you are going to have to go out of your way to provide it. The Romulans and Federation, despite the recent Dominion alliance out of necessity, have been in a state of cold war mutual distrust for some 200 years. We kindly ask where the Federation's vaunted civility has gone?

[BigJKU316]

With all due respect, how is closing the borders in any way helpful to the situation? Yes, it might guarantee a degree of safety but if you want Romulan transparency, you are going to have to go out of your way to provide it. The Romulans and Federation, despite the recent Dominion alliance out of necessity, have been in a state of cold war mutual distrust for some 200 years. We kindly ask where the Federation's vaunted civility has gone?

The facts of the "situation" as the Breen choose to put it are plain. Relations are as they are due to a variety of actions taken in the name of the Romulan Government. We do not desire anything in particular from the Romulan government but we will not re-open formal relations or our border until we are satisfied that neither the Romulan government nor its agents will abuse any such passage rights we grant them.

As for our civility we would offer that it is amply demonstrated by the fact that the response of the Federation to this unprovoked attack was not an immediate declaration of war. And that our response to an attempted invasion years ago was also not an immediate declaration of war.

We make no threats against the Romulans. We simply choose not to allow them the right to travel through our space which seems to us a reasonable caution given our history.

[stitch626]

We aren't concerned about the politics of the situation, more of the impact on the economy.

Will you also prevent trade ships from other power (mainly ours) from entering their space from your side?

[Nickswitz]

This history that you speak of was your history and the history of my predecessors, you cannot possibly claim any amount of trust with any new leader, but you have never closed your borders of trade to us just due to a regime change. So why now? Since obviously we don't have any way to gain your trust except by listening to your every demand, which we will not be our policy, because it does not serve the Romulan people well.

[BigJKU316]

This history that you speak of was your history and the history of my predecessors, you cannot possibly claim any amount of trust with any new leader, but you have never closed your borders of trade to us just due to a regime change. So why now? Since obviously we don't have any way to gain your trust except by listening to your every demand, which we will not be our policy, because it does not serve the Romulan people well.

We can only deal with the Romulan government as it has dealt with us in the past.

In fact your position seems quite illogical given that you and others have repeatedly referenced activities engaged in under different administrations within the Federation. Are you suggesting that whenever the leader of the Federation changes through election that they should not answer at all for previous actions of the government? I think most would agree that is quite silly.

The continued inability of the Romulan government to simply take full responsibility for the actions taken under its banner is why we are unable to trust Romulan intentions at this time. There is always an excuse. Rouge commanders, the Tal-Shiar or an illegitimate coup, there always seems to be a reason that the Romulan Star Empire should not be held to account.

The Romulan government changes frequently through coups and we find ourselves quite unable to differentiate between which ones are legitimate and which ones are not. To be fair the coup by Shinzon was initiated by a clone of a Federation officer that informed us he was created as part of a program to replace Starfleet captains with clones. So not only was Shinzon legally the head of the government by the same means that most Romulan leaders have come to power but he was GROWN BY THAT VERY GOVERNMENT WITH THE INTENTION OF USING HIM AS A WEAPON AGAINST THE FEDERATION.

At the outset a simple statement admitting guild and responsibility for this action would have been sufficient. But we are no longer willing to accept the constant equivocation on this subject. Either the Romulan government is a failed state that is unable to control its agents in which case our border should not be open for security reasons or the Romulan government has full control of its agents and has used them to actively plot aggression against the Federation.

Those are the only two logical ways to look at it. The current ruling regime on Romulus cannot on one hand state that it was not responsible for the variety of wrongs committed in its name because it had no control of those factions and on the other claim it is able to give us assurances that if we allow passage that these so called "rogue elements" won't strike yet again.

[stitch626]

You speak of logic. Don't you realize that aside from Vulcans, no one really cares about logic?

And you want to hold them responsible for so called "rogue elements"? What of the Maquis, previous Federation citizens who stole Federation vessels for piracy acts? And you did nothing to really stop them. Should the rest of the quadrant really hold you responsible for that?


Now this whole matter is very silly to us. We only want to know one thing. Will you restrict our ships entering and leaving Romulan space, or is your restriction to Romulan vessels alone?

[BigJKU316]

You speak of logic. Don't you realize that aside from Vulcans, no one really cares about logic?

And you want to hold them responsible for so called "rogue elements"? What of the Maquis, previous Federation citizens who stole Federation vessels for piracy acts? And you did nothing to really stop them. Should the rest of the quadrant really hold you responsible for that?


Now this whole matter is very silly to us. We only want to know one thing. Will you restrict our ships entering and leaving Romulan space, or is your restriction to Romulan vessels alone?

First, we have never claimed to have never made mistakes of our own. Other powers can feel free to deal with those as they see fit, we certainly don't begrudge them the right to do so and don't feel we should be criticized for doing the same.

Our position of the last 6 years remains. No vessels shall pass through our space into or out of Romulan space. We have given our reasoning behind our actions. The border is shut and will stay shut until the Federation is satisfied that our security concerns can be met.

[stitch626]

We certainly did not mean to accuse the Federation of such a claim. We do apologize if it appeared as such.

Our concern is that you may become too focused on ships going to Romulan space, and not focus enough on the rest of your space that our ships travel through. However, if you feel that will not happen, it is good enough for us.

[BigJKU316]

The Federation wishes to place the following ships up for sale as they are excess to the needs of Starfleet at this time. We are retaining examples of each class to be defueld and rendered inactive as museume pieces throughout the Federation, no further models shall remain in working order after this year.

55 Excelsior Mk II's
340 Miranda Class
980 Oberth Class Ships
118 Raven Class Ships
10 Rigel Class Ships

The New Orleans, Niagara, Steamrunner and Sabre Classes could all be made avaliable for sale but are being retained in active service at this time. Any buyer would have to purchase the whole class. Please respond via private channel. We will hold any offer for 24 hours to await a higher bid on the ships. Then the sale will be made final and announced.

[BigJKU316]

*General Communication from the United Federation of Planets*

In the course of our continued mission to explore new worlds and seek out new life the Federation has opened relations with a power capable of faster than light travel located rimward (South) of the Tholian Assembly. Over the course of several months we have initiated a productive relationship with this power. Our discovery of their existance and the opening of relations came on the heels of the destruction of no fewer than 3 large exploration vessels and the deaths of nearly 1,300 Starfleet crewmen over the course of the last decade.

We were finally able to initate commuincation with this power and ascertain the reasoning behind their initial hostility. We have reached a measure of understanding between our two peoples once we were able to correct their mis-impressions of our intentions. During the course of these negotiations we learned that this extremly insular state had been destroying exploration vessels for hundreds of years as they passed through the region. They were keeping the crews in prisons, comfortable camps really, without knowing what to do with them.

The Federation has negotiated their release from this state. The majority were in fact Starfleet personel but we also had turned over a small crew of Klingon warrors that are as we speak being returned to Klingon space. We do not have a complete tally of ships destroyed by them over the years at this point.

This power, known as the Jacorn Alliance, has asked us to make their presence known so that further misunderstandings may be avoided. The attached map (Staplic can attach it later) shows the location of their claimed space. They ask that all vessels refrain from entering it. Starfleet is detaching a small force of ships to assist the Jacorians in identifying vessels from this region so that they may be asked to leave rather than fired upon.

The government has indicated it is willing to open discussions with any government who wishes (PM Staplic as they are an NPC).

[Lt. Staplic]