Defiant

Post by **Teaos** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:05 pm

We dont have a massive technology lead over the other powers. We may have a bit of one in areas but hardy enough to brag about.

You notice that even though quite a few of the powers around the Federation dont like it they have not really attacked us? Could that be because we CAN fight them off easily and they know it?

Granitehewer · Post by **Granitehewer** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:17 pm

....or that these surrounding powers have their own internal instability or other more overt and blatant threats to worry about, rather than the cultural threat of the federation, for example the romulans appear to be reactive, but even if their culture wasn't so, they would be cautious when confronting the federation en masse, to avoid being galactic pariahs, and also to avoid an uncontained war, with other powers becoming involved, such as the cardassian union, klingon empire, tholians or breen, its not as if another major power could rely on an all out war with the UFP, and assume that the other powers would remain dormant

Deepcrush · Post by **Deepcrush** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:45 pm

Don't look at it as we could beat them that easily. War is about gain and loss. What do you gain from this war and what will you lose in return. They may be in such a position that a war would weaken them so badly that they wouldn't be able to defend themselves afterwards. The Romulans thought that they were the equal of starfleet, but if they went to war the y would suffer heavy losses. After that war the klingons would attack the romulans who would no longer be able to hold off a fresh enemy.

War is gain and loss--
What do i stand gain.
What do i stand to loss.
What will happen after the war.
Can i win that war.
After this one, can i win the next one.

That is the order of war, and all wars fall under this structure.

Granitehewer · Post by **Granitehewer** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:48 pm

king pyrrhus of epirus

Deepcrush · Post by **Deepcrush** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:56 pm

To be honest i was quoting ptolomy.

Granitehewer · Post by **Granitehewer** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:10 pm

yes, i wasn't referring directly to whom you quoted,merely that the situation inferred was that notion of a pyrrhic victory, as demonstrated by king pyrrhus of epirus

Granitehewer · Post by **Granitehewer** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:18 pm

although i didn't realise that you were quoting ptol,

Deepcrush · Post by **Deepcrush** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:30 pm

You should add in about the idea of a pyrrhic victory as i think it would shed a bright light to the reasons behind the peace.

Granitehewer · Post by **Granitehewer** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:53 pm

Well it was pretty much illuminated in your cunningly intelligent post, that a force may win a conflict or at least be in the process of winning but then be sufficiently weakened, to continue that conflict or respond appropritatel to another, like the mercenary king Pyrrhus of Epirus, when he was invited by the greek colonies/settlements to fight against the romans, so as you said the romulan star empire may gain an advantage over the federation but then itself be weakened to an extent that it is unable to fend off aggressor species like the klingons.
P.S if we demo ship combat it, be gentle

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:03 pm

We dont have a massive technology lead over the other powers. We may have a bit of one in areas but hardy enough to brag about.

In all areas? No, clearly not.
But we do apear to have a technological advantage in the area of weapons, as you mentioned yourself several times.
This is how the Federation is able to take on dedicated warships with science and exploration vessels with light armament.

You notice that even though quite a few of the powers around the Federation dont like it they have not really attacked us?

You mean except for the Dominion? And the Cardasians? And the Romulans? And the AU Klingons?
Nope, no wars there...

Could that be because we CAN fight them off easily and they know it?

Pretty much. The other races now know that the Federation could unleash a quadrant sized can of whoopass on them.
Because of their superior weapon technology.

None of these points refute the fact that waiting for an enemy to attack you before building a force that can combat them is stupid.

Granitehewer · Post by **Granitehewer** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:56 pm

not just the au klingons, remember when martok was replaced by a founder?

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:04 pm

Rochey wrote:Seafort, imagine replacing the US solidiers from Black Hawk Down with Federation troops. How long till they get slaughtered?

You mean giving a typical starship away team the same job or Fed troops have to launch the same attack using the same tactics?

If it's the former, Riker, Worf, Data and random goldshirts beam into the building, sneak through a few corridors and grab the militia leaders. They then have to get to a specific point for beam-up due to jamming, random interferrence or funny rocks, get into a firefight, the goldshirts all die, and then everyone beams back.

If it's the latter, no-one dies because the Feds haven't got anything resembling Humvees or Black Hawks so they can't do it.

If you mean Fed troops replace the US assault force by act of Q some of them might hit the ground alive. Maybe.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:09 pm

Monroe · Post by **Monroe** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:15 pm

What you have is a balance of power similiar to what Europe had after the Napoleonic Wars with the Federation on the fulcrom instead of Great Britain.

In this case you have three sides instead of the typical two (I think, I didnt watch much DS9 so I may be wrong on the side arrangement).

Romulans
Klingons
Cardasians / Breen

With the Federation in the middle. You want to be the fulcrom in this. The Ferengi, if they were smart business men could try to take this power away from the Federation but its the idea position. Which ever way you lean tips the balance of power in your favor. This pretty much stops wars from happening and leads to relative peace.

I think the reasoning behind the last few decades in Trek's turmoil was the emergence of the Cardasian / Breens to change it from a two side balance of power to a three side. This upset the careful balance and led to war. Then the Dominion arrived and screwed things up even more like when the Holy Roman Empire and France screwed up Italy's balance of power they got going in the late middle ages.

One thing that the Defiant does that I don't like is why the hell is Kira second in command? The Defiant is clearly a Star Fleet ship and she clearly is not a member of Star Fleet.

Another thing, why do people refer to the Federation as 'us' or 'we'

Post by **Teaos** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:08 am

Another thing, why do people refer to the Federation as 'us' or 'we'

I'm guilty of that a lot. Cause they are humans mostly I refer to them as us.

You mean except for the Dominion? And the Cardasians? And the Romulans? And the AU Klingons?
Nope, no wars there...

The Dominion would have attacked us no matter what. The Cardassians war was hardly a war and more of a boarder dispute. Romulans haven;t had a war with the Federation only a few isolated attacks. AU doesn't mean anything.