Ship of the Week: The Death Star

[Captain Seafort]

The first one did, no idea how the second one compares. Though it's probably around the same. I can't imagine you'd need to boost the power when it can already bust planets.

I can think of a few possible reasons for the Death Star II being larger than it's predecessor:

1) Palpatine was showing off.

2) More room for troops, equipment, starship docks, etc. It was, after all, meant to be a mobile base of operations as well as a planetbuster.

3) Better rate of fire. It was taking a shot every few minutes in RotJ, albeit almost certainly at greatly reduced power.

4) Possibly something to do with the off-axis firing it was capable of, although I've no idea why that would require it to be a hundred times the size of the first.

[Mikey]

Seafort - you've really got to start finishing your sentences.

Rochey - it was a problem because it allowed the damn thing to get blowed up.

[Captain Seafort]

Seafort - you've really got to start finishing your sentences.

muttermuttergrumblegrumblebloodyattentionspanfinishonethoughtbeforeyoustartanotheryouidiot

Rochey - it was a problem because it allowed the damn thing to get blowed up.

How exactly do you expect an attacking ship to get through a few hundred kilometres of metal to reach that shaft? The only reason the Falcon could do it was because the thing was still under construction. Even then, the defences surrounding the station were excellent, and if the stormies on Endor had shown a bit more common sense the shield would have stayed up, therefore no run, the Alliance would have lost the battle, and the station would have been completed.

[Mikey]

muttermuttergrumblegrumblebloodyattentionspanfinishonethoughtbeforeyoustartanotheryouidiot

Don't feel bad, I do it all the time.

How exactly do you expect an attacking ship to get through a few hundred kilometres of metal to reach that shaft? The only reason the Falcon could do it was because the thing was still under construction. Even then, the defences surrounding the station were excellent, and if the stormies on Endor had shown a bit more common sense the shield would have stayed up, therefore no run, the Alliance would have lost the battle, and the station would have been completed.

The question still remains why there was enough romm to maneuver a freighter and a squad of fighters to and around the reactor core. Surely, maintenance requirements don't require that much room.

[Captain Seafort]

The question still remains why there was enough romm to maneuver a freighter and a squad of fighters to and around the reactor core. Surely, maintenance requirements don't require that much room.

Like I said, I'm not even sure if that is a maintenance space - it might be something to do with the power distribution system. One idea would be that there are power cables leading off the four arms of the cruciform space. Look at the pipes they fly past on the way through the structure - most of them are wide enough to fit a TIE fighter, and some of them are wide enough for the Falcon. It's a big, powerful piece of kit, and as such needs big cables to carry power around

[Sionnach Glic]

Seafort;
I can understand making it bigger. I was responding to Graham's query as to whether the superlaser was more powerful than the original DS's.

Mikey:
In many parts of the shaft, the Falcon could just barely squeeze through. Hell, the dish on top of the ship was knocked off while going through a narrow area, and the fighters were all flying in single file. Presumably it's big enough to accomodate maintanence droids going through the area, or to allow freight to reach the other side of the station quickly. I still don't see why this is a problem, given that it's burried beneath hundreds of kilometres of ship.

[Captain Seafort]

Seafort;
I can understand making it bigger. I was responding to Graham's query as to whether the superlaser was more powerful than the original DS's.

That's where option three comes in - making the ship more powerful would allow multiple planet-killing shots per day (although as you say, there'd be little point in making the individual shots more powerful - it can already take out any planet in the galaxy).

[Grundig]

IMO, both death stars are pieces of junk. When I first saw Star Wars, I was all amazed, but now that I think back, I just get annoyed. It's just not imaginative. OMG big f***in wanktastic gun! Just like Shinzon's ship in Nemesis. Totally unbelievable. 900km in diameter? Come ON. At least that figure wasn't in any of the movies. I'd believe in midiclorians before I'd believe anything on that scale could be built in so little time.

[Captain Seafort]

IMO, both death stars are pieces of junk. When I first saw Star Wars, I was all amazed, but now that I think back, I just get annoyed. It's just not imaginative. OMG big f***in wanktastic gun! Just like Shinzon's ship in Nemesis.

When you say "not imaginative" I assume you mean "doesn't use reams of technobabble to fir a planet killer into a thimble". The Death Star is probably the most "realistic" planet killer in sci fi, because it doesn't use technobabble - just a big gun and a big starship to mount it on. As for the comparison with the Scimitar, the Death Star is built purley around the superlaser. The Scimitar's stupid because of the idiotic radiation, the sheer number of (claimed) weapons on a ship so small, and the uber cloak.

Totally unbelievable. 900km in diameter? Come ON. At least that figure wasn't in any of the movies.

The 900km diameter is derived directly from RotJ.

I'd believe in midiclorians before I'd believe anything on that scale could be built in so little time.

What's so surprising about it? The Empire has the resources of an entire galaxy to throw at the project.

[Mikey]

"doesn't use reams of technobabble to fir a planet killer into a thimble".

You mean, as in the Suncrusher or whatever that idiocy was called?

[Captain Seafort]

You mean, as in the Suncrusher or whatever that idiocy was called?

As in the Sun Crusher, Soran's trilithium torpedo, the 8472 planet killer, the Scimitar and pretty much every other planet killer I've heard of.

[Grundig]

When you say "not imaginative" I assume you mean "doesn't use reams of technobabble to fir a planet killer into a thimble". The Death Star is probably the most "realistic" planet killer in sci fi, because it doesn't use technobabble - just a big gun and a big starship to mount it on. As for the comparison with the Scimitar, the Death Star is built purley around the superlaser. The Scimitar's stupid because of the idiotic radiation, the sheer number of (claimed) weapons on a ship so small, and the uber cloak.

By 'not imaginative' I mean that the writers made the villains more scary by arming them with bigger weapons. That's what the Scimitar has in common with the Death Star(s).

The 900km diameter is derived directly from RotJ.

Derived from size comparisons? Ok, I'll buy that. But wouldn't each of those lighted windows we see be completely huge?

What's so surprising about it? The Empire has the resources of an entire galaxy to throw at the project.

Yes, but just because you have all those resources doesn't mean you can just throw it at a project. I mean, you can't just scale up the old plans can you? Something that big has to have mass-transit, life-support, urban planning - it's a space city right? Everything based on the size of humans would be out the window; the only thing that would stay the same after the scale-up are the very largest structural elements.

If you could convince me of the how, there would still be the why. Why scale up? Why not build more than one? Wouldn't that more effectively address Graham's point about not being able to police/terrorize enough systems at a time?

[Captain Seafort]

By 'not imaginative' I mean that the writers made the villains more scary by arming them with bigger weapons. That's what the Scimitar has in common with the Death Star(s).

Nope - they made the bad guys a serious threat by giving them a planet killer. They made them (or rather, Vader) scary by having him throttle people with his mind.

Derived from size comparisons? Ok, I'll buy that. But wouldn't each of those lighted windows we see be completely huge?

Who says those lights are windows? They're probably either huge docking bays, or the engines of construction vehicles.

Yes, but just because you have all those resources doesn't mean you can just throw it at a project. I mean, you can't just scale up the old plans can you? Something that big has to have mass-transit, life-support, urban planning - it's a space city right? Everything based on the size of humans would be out the window; the only thing that would stay the same after the scale-up are the very largest structural elements.

Baseline Star Wars computer tech is so advanced that sapient robots can be built by nine-year olds scavenging through scrapyards. The design side of things wouldn't be a problem. As for getting the stuff to the construction site it is, again, a matter of scale. They think nothing of sustaining a planetary population of quadrillions through imports, so why would the shipment of the raw materials for a big starship be a problem?

If you could convince me of the how, there would still be the why. Why scale up? Why not build more than one? Wouldn't that more effectively address Graham's point about not being able to police/terrorize enough systems at a time?

Simple - Palpatine's ego. The Death Star wasn't just a weapon, it was a symbol of the New Order. The size of the first was mostly defined by its power generation requirements, and the support systems for the reactor and superlaser. The size of the second was determined by Palpatine showing off. As for numbers, the very thing that made the Death Star useful - the fact that it could overwhelm any defences in the galaxy in an instant, also made it a threat. The more individuals given that power, the greater the chance that one of them would decide to use it to declare himself Emperor. That's why Vader was aboard the first one - to put the kibosh (or rather, Force choke) on Tarkin if the Grand Moff started getting ideas above his station.

[Sionnach Glic]

Totally unbelievable. 900km in diameter? Come ON. At least that figure wasn't in any of the movies.

No number for anything was ever given in any of the movies. The 900KM figure was derived from a thorough analysis of the film by Curtis Saxton.

[Lazar]

Then there's that tricky "Endor holocaust" issue, about how the explosion of the Death Star in orbit would have utterly pwned the place and killed all the poor little ewoks.