Re: Fleets
Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:39 am
That seems long, but okay.
GrahamKennedy wrote:I think it was more a case of preparation time.
Bear in mind that the Borg attack in BoBW happened over a very short span; the timing isn't clear, but from the initial discovery of the vanished colony to Wolf 359 was only a couple of days or so, tops. Similarly, in Unification Picard has to assemble a fleet basically using whatever he can get his hands on at the time, and gets about 20 ships together from one Starbase.
But the run up to the Dominion war lasted three years. They had a long, long warning that they might well need heavy concentrations of forces, and all the lead time in the world to assemble them.
To me that implies that Starfleet normally has their ships widely distributed; and indeed that's what we usually see in the show, with ships virtually always operating on their own. They occasionally rendezvous for one reason or another, but we never see so much as two ships working together as a matter of normal routine. With travel times of weeks or months, most ships just aren't available for the kinds of "instant crisis" we often see.
Moer of a merchant fleet in that concept than military. When you are not "looking" for a fight or looking to deter fights you do not need a wolf pack. Plus, with replicators and such there is no need for supply ships or cargo carriers ro accompany larger craft as support.GrahamKennedy wrote:To me that implies that Starfleet normally has their ships widely distributed; and indeed that's what we usually see in the show, with ships virtually always operating on their own. They occasionally rendezvous for one reason or another, but we never see so much as two ships working together as a matter of normal routine. With travel times of weeks or months, most ships just aren't available for the kinds of "instant crisis" we often see.
I'd agree that that would make sense, but the fact is that they did suffer from exactly that weakness repeatedly in the show. If there were one place you'd expect to find dense force concentrations it would be along the Klingon or Romulan neutral zones, but look at episodes like Balance of Terror, Contagion, The Enemy and Unification - every one involved an incident on or within the neutral zone. It's not even a complete list. Yet in every case one starship was on hand to deal with it, and help was said to be nowhere near. Even as late as Nemesis the E-E's backup waiting at the border consisted of what, five or so ships? And they had a day or two to gather.McAvoy wrote:I do think Starfleet did have some sort of concentrted fleet(s) somewhere because having a widely distributed fleet would be a severe weakness if suprise attacked by one of the other powers. So there would be maybe not a fleet like we saw in DS9 where it was tightly packed but maybe where ships were within minutes of each other at warp.
As opposed to having ships not within reach of a first strike? THAT is not a good idea. As great as Romulan intelligence can/could/are/were be/was, having a maybe dozen ships on the border to protect the Neutral Zone, would be even worse.Jim wrote:A good way to START a war with a glitchy war-mongering race like the Romulans or Klingons would be to keep a threatening number of ships on their border.
... not a good idea.
I agree with McAvoy.McAvoy wrote:As opposed to having ships not within reach of a first strike? THAT is not a good idea. As great as Romulan intelligence can/could/are/were be/was, having a maybe dozen ships on the border to protect the Neutral Zone, would be even worse.Jim wrote:A good way to START a war with a glitchy war-mongering race like the Romulans or Klingons would be to keep a threatening number of ships on their border.
... not a good idea.
Basically look at it as mutual defense.
McAvoy wrote:As opposed to having ships not within reach of a first strike? THAT is not a good idea. As great as Romulan intelligence can/could/are/were be/was, having a maybe dozen ships on the border to protect the Neutral Zone, would be even worse.Jim wrote:A good way to START a war with a glitchy war-mongering race like the Romulans or Klingons would be to keep a threatening number of ships on their border.
... not a good idea.
Basically look at it as mutual defense.
Mark wrote:McAvoy wrote:As opposed to having ships not within reach of a first strike? THAT is not a good idea. As great as Romulan intelligence can/could/are/were be/was, having a maybe dozen ships on the border to protect the Neutral Zone, would be even worse.Jim wrote:A good way to START a war with a glitchy war-mongering race like the Romulans or Klingons would be to keep a threatening number of ships on their border.
... not a good idea.
Basically look at it as mutual defense.
Your forgetting Starfleets mandate. Starfleet ISN'T going to launch a first strike to start a war. The border monitoring stations are pretty much toast if anyone comes across. However, keeping a defensive fleet close enough to respond to the incursion seems more Starfleets style.
I see what you were looking at when I said "not having ships within reach of a first strike". You may have thought I meant Starfleet being within reach of commiting a first strike. i should have been clearer as in defending from first strikes.Mark wrote:Did I quote the wrong message? Sorry I was half asleep last night.