Lighthawk wrote:Fair point, though still hard to justify pouring that much money and manpower into a single vessel just to make up for one issue. Even if they can't break through the shields, the planet is effectively isolated from the rest of the galaxy. Though I can see even that much of a defiance being more than Palpatine would be willing to tolerate.
This wouldn't just be a single planet posing the threat, but dozens or hundreds of them. More to the point, being shielded doesn't mean they were cut off. Windows could be opened in the shield to allow ships to leave without compromising its defence, allowing the planet to maintain contact with the rest of the galaxy and with any insurgent groups it was sponsoring. A huge fleet would be needed to prevent such action (look how ineffective Death Squadron was at Hoth - they were only about 50% effective.
Source? I'm hardly an expert in SW lore, but I've never come across anything naming Alderaan as the primary backer of the Rebellion. I thought that was Mon Calamari.
Bail Organa was one of the key organisers of the Petition of 2000 towards the end of the Clone Wars (RotS), and when that failed began organising to take on the Empire. He was one of the three signatories of the Corellian Treaty that formed the Rebel Alliance, along with Mon Mothma and Garm Bel Iblis. (Dark Force Rising) Since he was head of state of Alderaan, he was able to covertly steer the resources of the entire planet towards supporting the rebellion, and used Alderaanian diplomatic ships (such as the Tantive IV) to conduct courier missions for the rebels. (ANH)
We saw SDs in action capturing the Tantive IV, but they wanted the ship captured, not blown to atoms. They couldn't use them on Hoth because of the shield. Couldn't use them on the Falcon in the asteroid field for the same reason as the Tantive. Plot induced situations tied up the big guns in the movies.
Those "plot induced situations" are typical COIN ops. Incidentally, they could have used the big guns at Hoth - liquefy the ice field around the base and flood it. However, the objective was to capture the rebel leadership, not obliterate it, so that was out.
Their ability to recognize a threat posed to a specialized platform like the DS isn't mutually exclusive to a "my dick is bigger than your dick" mindset of fleet composition.
It demonstrated that "rar, Hulk Smash!" is not the be-all and end-all of combat, and that the potential existed for a threat to be posed without having to deploy overwhelming firepower.
Because he knew Vader would throttle him dead if blew up the Falcon
Demonstrating that blowing stuff up is not the be-all and end-all of Imperial tactics.
Yes, Ozzel was a hamfisted moron, but his approach to the situation speaks of the Imperial mindset. He was clumsy and gave s**t all for alerting the rebels because he was just going to try and power through with brute force.
And Vader's reaction demonstrated that such an attitude is unacceptable in the Imperial Fleet.
Yes, but they were largely post new republic imps, at least as far as when the books seem to give them their attention, and seemed to have learned something from it. If I've missed some books, a high likely hood I'll admit, detailing their service during the imperial years, please let me know.
With the exception of Pellaeon they were all senior commanders during the Imperial period, and are unlikely to have altered their style simply due to slightly changed circumstances. If you believe that they did so I'd like to see some evidence.
Unshielded: Proven wrong by ANH and ESB
Oh?
The Falcon struck a glancing blow to a TIE's shields while escaping from the Death Star, and another's shields are visible when it hit an asteroid while chasing the Falcon.
Of course cruising to the fight in a mother ship is a better option. But if said ship goes down in flames and you don't have a hyperdrive, you're SOL. You can either surrender to the enemy or wait to die in space. Having a hyperdive is a nice backup option.
That's one possibility. A very unlikely one given the Imperial fleet's clear superiority in the vast majority of combat situations.
The rebel pilots did wear a suit that had a space rated energy shield just for that situation.
1) Relying on active measure rather than a reliable proper suit is stupid (have you missed the E-D discussions. In this case it's probably explained as a jury-rigged measure due to the alliance's poor resources.
2) They didn't work half the time, at the very least. Wes Janson's first kill was an alliance pilot - he got spooked on a raid, bugged out, and Janson had to shoot him down to prevent the Imps spotting him. The shot cracked the canopy and killed him.
Since you invoked the movie cannon, I'll give you the fighters, as much as everything else makes them out as little less disposable than a missile.
As I've already pointed out, their kill:loss ratio is about equal to the wings in open combat, and in the films is far superior (mainly due to the stern chases while attacking the two Death Stars).
Troops though, come on. Even just pulling from the movies, stormtroopers are a joke. "An entire legion" of the Emperor's best troops got their asses handed to them by tribal teddy bears.
ANH: Cleared the T4 in short order, despite assaulting a defended chokepoint. Took down a sandcrawler with only small arms and light support weapons, due to being able to hit specific key structural supports. Attacked the detention block through a chokepoint and were clearly winning the firefight when Leia took charge. Fulfilled their orders to make the rebels' escape look hard fought, but to allow them to leave, despite the fact that the restriction meant they had to deliberately miss people who were trying to kill them.
ESB: Cleared Echo Base rapidly, through tight corridors well-suited for the defence. Again shepherded the rebels through the corridors of Cloud City in order to ensure that they reached the Falcon for Vader to pick up with the Ex.
RotJ: Were surprised by vastly superior numbers of opponents in close-quarter forest fighting who were much smaller targets than they were used to, were much stronger than humans, had good natural camouflage, knew the terrain well, and had prepared the ground. They were still winning the battle until Chewie nicked an AT-ST and turned it against them.
Ground support, the AT-ATs were pretty badass, as long as they were facing there target's head on. There are some serious issues with those things though.
Such as? They were clearly intended to engage the target with heavy firepower at long range, then close and deploy their troops. Yes, their flanks are vulnerable, and they can be tripped under the right circumstances. That's why they should have AT-ST's, disembarked troops, or other lighter combat elements in support. Given that they shield denied them the air support they would receive under other conditions they did extremely well, lets not forget the fact that they won, very quickly and with only two losses.
I wasn't picturing a land campaign actually. I was picturing fleet battles in the space around said planets. Empire sweeps in, smashes the planetary fleet, then issues demands of surrender by threat of bombardment.
And if they refuse, what then? The objective is to
capture the planet, not destroy it.