Do You Google, Or Do You Search The Internet?

[IanKennedy]

Ditto. Plus macs are ridiculously expensive.

Find me an equivalent spec computer for less? You will find it hard. Mac's are not expensive for what they are. Sure they're expensive compared to a crapbox, but who wants a crapbox.

[IanKennedy]

All fine and dandy, but for the average user, A £200 laptop is perfectly usable and equally spec'ed to the £700 they are going to shell out on a mac book.

It's not equally spec'ed. It wont have a camera, it wont have Firewire, it wont have as fast a hard disk, it's memory wont be as fast etc etc etc

[Mikey]

No doubt that you get what you pay for when you purchase a Mac, but there's definitely a line before which you just don't need the stuff for which Mac makes you pay. E.g.: my cousin becomes a bat Mitzvah next month. Aside frome having to schlep to Cleveland, I am purchasing as a gift for her a laptop. After questioning her, her parents, and her older brother, I come to find that all she really wants is a netbook, with maybe a little bit of gaming capability etc. I can get something with an Intel Atom for $400 - $450 that will serve her perfectly; why would I consider a Mac for $1000+ ?

Obviously, you would tell me that I wouldn't, shouldn't, and that this segment was never Mac's niche. True, but I consider that a failing of Apple, if not of the Mac itself. Why wouldn't Apple want to take advantage of this relatively large market segment - people who need relatively little capability, but are only willing to pay relatively little for it?

[IanKennedy]

No doubt that you get what you pay for when you purchase a Mac, but there's definitely a line before which you just don't need the stuff for which Mac makes you pay. E.g.: my cousin becomes a bat Mitzvah next month. Aside frome having to schlep to Cleveland, I am purchasing as a gift for her a laptop. After questioning her, her parents, and her older brother, I come to find that all she really wants is a netbook, with maybe a little bit of gaming capability etc. I can get something with an Intel Atom for $400 - $450 that will serve her perfectly; why would I consider a Mac for $1000+ ?

There's nothing on my MacBook Pro that I would like to be without. Now, I'm not saying that everyone has that need but that's fine. But you cannot claim (and I know you didn't) that Macs are expensive. Compared with any other company that makes an equivalent (and I mean equivalent) machine they are cheaper. Try finding the matching Dell it will cost more.

Obviously, you would tell me that I wouldn't, shouldn't, and that this segment was never Mac's niche. True, but I consider that a failing of Apple, if not of the Mac itself. Why wouldn't Apple want to take advantage of this relatively large market segment - people who need relatively little capability, but are only willing to pay relatively little for it?

Well they just don't seem to want to compete in the crap-in-a-box market, they're a premium brand and want to stay that way. That and the fact that they're doing rather well on what they do make, they where just valued at about $230billion (Apple). To put that into context Microsoft is valued at about $253billion (MS).

[Mikey]

Compared with any other company that makes an equivalent (and I mean equivalent) machine they are cheaper. Try finding the matching Dell it will cost more.

Indeed. Like I said, you get what you pay for. However, I would call either one in that case "expensive," though that doesn't necessarily imply "overpriced."

Well they just don't seem to want to compete in the crap-in-a-box market, they're a premium brand and want to stay that way. That and the fact that they're doing rather well on what they do make, they where just valued at about $230billion (Apple). To put that into context Microsoft is valued at about $253billion (MS).

I know they're doing fine, it just seems a little out of touch with the realities of retail to ignore a big market segment. Oh well, Steve Jobs has long since stopped calling me for business advice.

[Nickswitz]

Yeah, Ive had these arguments with manta of my peers, they seem to think that expensive and overpriced are mutually exclusive. Which they aren't, Mac's are expensive, that said, they are worth ever penny paid for them.

[Reliant121]

I will concede some points, however I disagree entirely with the worth every penny paid. Most of the stuff on a mac I do not use, need or want to use. Hence why I prefer using my Windows machines.

[IanKennedy]

Yeah, Ive had these arguments with manta of my peers, they seem to think that expensive and overpriced are mutually exclusive. Which they aren't, Mac's are expensive, that said, they are worth ever penny paid for them.

They are mutually exclusive when the item you are talking about is the cheapest for the specification. If a Mac isn't then it's close to that.

[IanKennedy]

I will concede some points, however I disagree entirely with the worth every penny paid. Most of the stuff on a mac I do not use, need or want to use. Hence why I prefer using my Windows machines.

For example? I use the Firewire port, it's the fastest way of attaching an external disk. The video camera, I use with Skype both for work and home.

[Reliant121]

-double post-

[Reliant121]

The only thing i'd use a camera for is MSN video calling, it isn't possible with Mac compatible messenger programs. No-one I know uses Skype. The only thing's i connect are only USB compatible. As for programs, I don't use iWeb, I don't use the iChat system because it doesn't work with MSN, the mac email system doesn't seem to like my googlemail or my hotmail.

The only thing I use on the mac is photoshop.

I use Computers mainly for MSN, web browsing (which can be done perfectly on either) and gaming. Gaming on a mac is either complicated to run a win game, or poor if you run a mac game.

[IanKennedy]

The only thing i'd use a camera for is MSN video calling, it isn't possible with Mac compatible messenger programs. No-one I know uses Skype. The only thing's i connect are only USB compatible. As for programs, I don't use iWeb, I don't use the iChat system because it doesn't work with MSN, the mac email system doesn't seem to like my googlemail or my hotmail.

So software. It's the hardware you pay for the software is free. Currently USB 2 is only 480Mb/s, Firewire is 800Mb/s, almost twice as fast.

The only thing I use on the mac is photoshop.

I use Computers mainly for MSN, web browsing (which can be done perfectly on either) and gaming. Gaming on a mac is either complicated to run a win game, or poor if you run a mac game.

I haven't said that you should buy a Mac, simply that they are not expensive for what they are. If they're not suitable for you then I'm fine with that.

[Reliant121]

Very well, Conceded.

[IanKennedy]

Very well, Conceded.

I haven't conceded, I never ever said they where for everyone. I simply said that for their spec they are not expensive, and I still stick to that claim. Or are you saying that you concede, I'm not sure.

[Reliant121]

That I concede. I wouldn't dare to be presumptuous enough to tell someone they had.