Money

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:40 pm

Rochey wrote:Personaly, I consider the fact that the military conducts civilian trials to be the most damning piece of evidence towards teh Federation.

*goes off to find source*

I think you're thinking of "Doctor Bashir, I presume" regarding Bashir's father plea-bargaining with the Starfleet JAG with him going to prison while Bashir kept his Starfleet commission. I wouldn't call that a too egregious incident, since a) it involved both Bashir's career as a Starfleet officer, and b) was shortly before the Dominion War broke out, so the Federation might have gone over to martial law for the duration of the emergency.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:52 pm

Possibly, I only remember that it was a long time ago.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:44 pm

Captain Seafort wrote:
I think you're thinking of "Doctor Bashir, I presume" regarding Bashir's father plea-bargaining with the Starfleet JAG with him going to prison while Bashir kept his Starfleet commission. I wouldn't call that a too egregious incident, since a) it involved both Bashir's career as a Starfleet officer, and b) was shortly before the Dominion War broke out, so the Federation might have gone over to martial law for the duration of the emergency.

Except then they'd be punishing the son for the crimes of the parents, a system we gave up centuries ago on modern Earth. And we also have no evidence that the Federation was under martial law for the duration of the Dominion War, save for the crisis involving Red Squad which was resolved before the war even broke out.

*Edit: and even if Starfleet got involved because Bashir was one of their own, the crime took place long before he joined up and therefore should be under civilian jurisdiction.

Post by **Teaos** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 1:01 am

The reason (Or part of it) that there was greed in USSR is that the basic needs of everyone wasn't meet. They are in the federation.

If the smart are in power its good. It gives everyone else a reason to try harder.

sunnyside · Post by **sunnyside** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 2:29 am

My take on it is that they don't have money, but people are not equal. However the difference is determined by position not by old money, gambling, dealing drugs, or daytrading.

Take the starships. The captain doesn't have more "money" than a crewman. But what they do have are spacious quarters, sometimes a personal chef, more access to replicators (replicator rations) and holodeck time, and I'm not sure if regular crewmen can even go to ten forward.

I think it might be similar on earth. If you want to live with the house a resources allocated to someone who mops floors, well, OK, you'll still have all the videogames you want, all the food you want, and healthcare that can't be beat. Just maybe no vacations to Rigel.

However the guy who oversees the mopping has a better lot. If you work harder, that could be you. etc etc.

The key is that without money most illegal stuff gets a lot harder, and so does "worthless" stuff like day trading.

Monroe · Post by **Monroe** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:30 am

Teaos wrote:The reason (Or part of it) that there was greed in USSR is that the basic needs of everyone wasn't meet. They are in the federation.

I think the way the Federation fights wars proves that the smart are not in power there.

Post by **Teaos** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:38 am

You could be very smart and still fight a war like a moron. Intelligence and common sense go together very seldom in human history.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:14 pm

Quite true.
As odd as it sounds, it does seem like the UFP found some pseudo-communist/socialist system that does work. How they actually achieve this is unknown, but it seems to go against human nature so I'm not sure how it works.

As for the main point of this topic, we know they have money. Federation Credits have been mentioned several times, and Sisko's father would have to have some way of getting customers to pay for eating in his restauraunt.

Thorin · Post by **Thorin** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:32 pm

Communism in it's most pure form isn't a bad thing - it doesn't reward or punish the hard working/lazy. Just that our most famous example, the Soviet Union, everyone was equal, just an extremely poor equal.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:42 pm

Hmm, I'd have to disagree there (big surprise!). I like my freedom.

Thorin · Post by **Thorin** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:44 pm

Rochey wrote:Hmm, I'd have to disagree there (big surprise!). I like my freedom.

Sorry I phrased it wrongly, I meant it's not inheritantly bad. I wouldn't want it to happen either, even in it's idealistic form, but that's just my opinion, like I don't want the Torries in power (though maybe they are inheritantly bad...).

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:45 pm

Ah, right.

No, there isn't anything inherinetly wrong with it. If you have a good guy in charge. But you could say the same about a dictatorship.
It all comes down to: is the guy in charge interested in himself, or the good of the people?

Thorin · Post by **Thorin** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:48 pm

Rochey wrote:Ah, right.

No, there isn't anything inherinetly wrong with it. If you have a good guy in charge. But you could say the same about a dictatorship.

That's true, but it's a bit different with a dictatorship; it can never be good on paper/in an ideal world; for a guy to be a dictator he is going against democracy and law, thus it is impossible for a "good guy" to be a dictator. It is, however, possible for a "good guy" to be the leader of communists. The problem is that at the moment, it just doesn't happen.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:49 pm

What I meant was; if you have a 'dictator' who actually cares about his people, it wouldn't be bad. But I do get what you're saying.

Thorin · Post by **Thorin** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:52 pm

Oh of course you can have a dictator who cares for his people - but he's still broken laws/democracy so can't be a "good guy". But in the Federation theres all the councils, elected president (who we've never seen as a human, finally some decent non-humans-are-the-only-federation-species writing). There's also a different mindset after first contact/with the creation of the federation. People are brought up differently. Most of the dick heads were killed in WW3, too