Everything you always wanted to know about 'The Doctor'

[Aaron]

I'd bet they confiscated it in the name of "Temporal protection" or whatever excuse the time cops use and destroyed it or locked it up. Meaning the Doc probably got to spend his life after return stuck in a building somewhere.

[Sonic Glitch]

I'd bet they confiscated it in the name of "Temporal protection" or whatever excuse the time cops use and destroyed it or locked it up. Meaning the Doc probably got to spend his life after return stuck in a building somewhere.

Probably mining dilithium or whatever with the other Mark I's unless he could get some sort of case like Data in "The Measure of A Man" (which in the books, he does)

[Nickswitz]

But didn't the doctor get the 'rights' of a writer making him considered human, and in Endgame, in the first reality he's living like he did on VOY, so I expect he gets to keep his holoemiter.

[Aaron]

But didn't the doctor get the 'rights' of a writer making him considered human, and in Endgame, in the first reality he's living like he did on VOY, so I expect he gets to keep his holoemiter.

No actually he didn't, he got control over his work. The judge explicitly states that he was not prepared to take up the case of "hologram rights" at the time. Of course it's implied that at some point it would be and he and the others would be free (ala MOaM), which would have been interesting to see explored in a future series. Those Mark I's where essentially slaves so it would have been a cool look into Fed culture.

[SomosFuga]

Those Mark I's where essentially slaves so it would have been a cool look into Fed culture.

Not slaves because they are not sentients, they would be more like working animals.

[Sonic Glitch]

Those Mark I's where essentially slaves so it would have been a cool look into Fed culture.

Not slaves because they are not sentients, they would be more like working animals.

OooooOo.. and: Cue Debate!

[Aaron]

Not slaves because they are not sentients, they would be more like working animals.

The term you are looking for is "sapient", a human is "sapient" meaning we can reason objectively, unlike most animals which are "sentient", meaning they can only reason subjectively. And it's pretty obvious that the Doctor was a "sapient" individual. Seeing as we did not see more then 30 seconds of the other EMH's it's impossible to say one way or another if they were "sapient". If they were, then it is slavery. One does not need a court ruling to make it immoral. It's not like they were sentient before and only became sapient through the magic of a Federation court.

[SomosFuga]

Yes sapient, my mistake, i'm just learning english.

On the subjet, IIRC it's been stated that the doctor has surpassed his/its original programing by a long shot so he is not like the others Mk I's which are just that, EMH's, or maybe even less because they could have been reprogrammed to make lesser tasks.

[Aaron]

Yes sapient, my mistake, i'm just learning english.

On the subjet, IIRC it's been stated that the doctor has surpassed his/its original programing by a long shot so he is not like the others Mk I's which are just that, EMH's, or maybe even less because they could have been reprogrammed to make lesser tasks.

Aye and he did it just by being left on all the time.

[Mikey]

Oooh, and Kendall sparks a second hot debate!

Is the potential for developing sapience unaided (like the Doctor did) equivalent to actually being sapient, as far as "human" rights are concerned?

[Black Jesus]

I have some questions about the Doctor (but mostly about 'mobile' holograms i.e. The Doctor)

His comm badge......so what is it like, a functioning holographic virtual comm badge? How does that work then?
Does he weigh anything?
What is it like to touch him and be touched by him?
What is his strength? If he punches you, would it hurt?

I would go with the developing consensus that the Doctor just accesses the comm system through the computer since he is tied into the computer. Him pressing his comm badge to send a hail was probably just a subroutine to make him seem more human, like Data and his blinking for instance.

Since the Doctor is made of photons and force fields, I'd wager he doesn't weigh anything. Unless photons have detectable mass.

I'd think him touching you would just feel like pressure on your body. No warmth, no gentleness, no humanity in it, no other sensation than pressure. You know, sorta like being married.

It would stand to reason that the Doctor's strength could be adjusted or that he could "unconsciously" adjust it himself, probably anything from normal human strength all the way up to retard strength, which would be like turning the Doctor up to 11.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

The term you are looking for is "sapient", a human is "sapient" meaning we can reason objectively, unlike most animals which are "sentient", meaning they can only reason subjectively. And it's pretty obvious that the Doctor was a "sapient" individual. Seeing as we did not see more then 30 seconds of the other EMH's it's impossible to say one way or another if they were "sapient". If they were, then it is slavery. One does not need a court ruling to make it immoral. It's not like they were sentient before and only became sapient through the magic of a Federation court.

Dumb question. What's the difference between reasoning subjectively and objectively?

[Mikey]

A human can formulate opinions or conceptions about his environment, regardless of bearing on the human's primal motivations. A dog can only form conceptions based on how stimuli affect his ability to obtain food/water/warmth/a mate.

[Tyyr]

Oooh, and Kendall sparks a second hot debate!

Is the potential for developing sapience unaided (like the Doctor did) equivalent to actually being sapient, as far as "human" rights are concerned?

I love this particular little bit of sci-fi, what constitutes life.

Personally I think that if the potential for sapience is inherent in the EMH programming then you have to regard the EMH line, and any similarly programmed holograms as sapient beings and give them all the normal "human" rights. As far as I can tell the Doctor isn't portrayed as having anything unusual happening to him that prompted his development, merely that he was left on for a long time. Of course that brings up a sticky problem, what do you do with the programs that exist but haven't reached that point yet. Are you legally obligated to allow them to run and eventually attain sapience or do you never turn them on at all.

In many ways it almost becomes an abortion debate. Do you wipe out the non-sapient EMH's and similar programs before they attain sapience or do you let them develop further?

[Mikey]

As far as I can tell the Doctor isn't portrayed as having anything unusual happening to him that prompted his development, merely that he was left on for a long time. Of course that brings up a sticky problem, what do you do with the programs that exist but haven't reached that point yet. Are you legally obligated to allow them to run and eventually attain sapience or do you never turn them on at all.

Exactly my question. Since no particular weird event happened to the Doctor, we can assume that every single EMH had the potential for sapience. Do we treat with them based on that fact, or based on the idea that they currently are not sapient?