Ship of the Weekend - Executor

[Monroe]

Personally, I think the idea that a military force would design a ship larger that it should be so that it frightens people is just plain stupid.

But real life militaries do it all the time. Don't underestimate the technological terror they constructed.

Look at Leonardo DaVinchi's 'tank' while it wasn't -that- practical it sure was scary as all hell. Look at modern battles. The US goes into battle to Drowning Pool for a reason. It pumps up our troops and demoralizes muslim troops. Look at what the British did to the muslims in the Indian wars. They tied them in pig skin and burried them. Scaring the shit out of an enemy can be very useful.

Your world declares independence and a SSD shows up flanked by twelve star destroyers and soon you're going to have a huge problem just holding your forces together. When the Empire wants to take the gloves off they can. And it fits perfectly with Imperial military doctrine... "Fear will keep the locals in line..."

[Deepcrush]

I mean, what kind of people are frightened by the size of a vehicle?

Revisit this when you see your friend ground alive under one. Think again when you have nothing to stop it and just have to watch.

[Deepcrush]

Personally, I think the idea that a military force would design a ship larger that it should be so that it frightens people is just plain stupid.

But real life militaries do it all the time. Don't underestimate the technological terror they constructed.

Look at Leonardo DaVinchi's 'tank' while it wasn't -that- practical it sure was scary as all hell. Look at modern battles. The US goes into battle to Drowning Pool for a reason. It pumps up our troops and demoralizes muslim troops. Look at what the British did to the muslims in the Indian wars. They tied them in pig skin and burried them. Scaring the s**t out of an enemy can be very useful.

Your world declares independence and a SSD shows up flanked by twelve star destroyers and soon you're going to have a huge problem just holding your forces together. When the Empire wants to take the gloves off they can. And it fits perfectly with Imperial military doctrine... "Fear will keep the locals in line..."

Fear is a strange thing. It can keep you alive and moving fast. It can also break you down in your boots and leave you a huddled mass. Its hard to make sense of it and it never works the same way twice. Its always different some how. You can't explain it, you can't define it. Most systems wouldn't have had the power needed to beat back the Empire. An ISD is bad enough but if its part of a small SSD task force. Its going to have escorts ships like Victories and cargo ships. Troop transports and patrol frigates. The Empire could put a hundred thousand troops on a planet over night and hold total air power and control of the space above. Every person fighting back would be a sitting target.

[Monroe]

Exactly the purpose of the ship wasn't to just win a battle. The purpose was to utterly crush not just them in terms of fire power but if there were any survivors to make them so afraid of the carnage that they would never strike back. Its a deterant just as much as a weapon of war.

[Reliant121]

That I think is quite the ethos of the Empire anyway. The troopers that walk around in stark white uniforms that loosely resemble skeletal figures, Ships that dwarf their equivalents in firepower and size, Massive battleships with the destructive firepower to scorch entire continents. It's not practical in many ways, but it's fucking scary to see it and to know what it can do.

[Captain Seafort]

Personally, I think the idea that a military force would design a ship larger that it should be so that it frightens people is just plain stupid. The size of a ship should be based on sound principles of engineering, balancing firepower, defensive systems, mobility, logistical requirements, and other such factors. The thought of a designer sitting there thinking "Well 10 km is the most sensible length but people would be more scared of it if it was 14 km... and god, what if we made it 19 km long? I bet they'd wet their pants at that!" is just daft.

True, if that were the reasoning behind it. However, there are more reasons than intimidation to build a big ship. Extra size means more surface area to mount weapons, greater mass to absorb the recoil of said weapons (allowing bigger ones to be mounted), and greater volume to put radiators, reactors, starfighters, and troops. Bigger is, quite simply, better in every way. The only advantage smaller ships offer is flexibility - an important consideration, certainly, but there are occassions when flexibility is secondary to individual utility.

[Graham Kennedy]

True, if that were the reasoning behind it. However, there are more reasons than intimidation to build a big ship. Extra size means more surface area to mount weapons, greater mass to absorb the recoil of said weapons (allowing bigger ones to be mounted), and greater volume to put radiators, reactors, starfighters, and troops. Bigger is, quite simply, better in every way. The only advantage smaller ships offer is flexibility - an important consideration, certainly, but there are occassions when flexibility is secondary to individual utility.

Now this, absolutely. Bigger is better in many ways, to be sure, but then why say "they built it big to intimidate"?

I simply don't believe anybody ever built a real life battleship big for intimidation purposes. It's nonsense. The size of real life battleships was influenced by factors like how large it has to be to have the guns needed, which in turn was influenced by being able to outgun other people's battleships. Or by how much fuel and how big a set of engines it needed to have the speed and range you wanted, how much space you need for crew and provisions, all that kind of thing. But I'd bet my life savings that nobody built the Iowas because they thought making battleships bigger would make them more intimidating looking.

[Graham Kennedy]

I mean, what kind of people are frightened by the size of a vehicle?

Revisit this when you see your friend ground alive under one. Think again when you have nothing to stop it and just have to watch.

Yeah, because a 40 ton tank driving over somebody isn't nearly as scary as a 60 ton tank doing it, is it?

[Sionnach Glic]

I think the intimidation factor was more a side-effect. Perhaps when they were designing this thing, someone commented "hey, this thing is already fricken massive. Let's make it a bit bigger, slam on a load more guns and it'll really freak people out".

[Graham Kennedy]

I dunno, maybe it's just me. It's just when I think of people designing something like a Destroyer today, I can't imagine somebody going "You know, if we made this thing 30 feet longer and put a second gun on the front, it might freak people out and intimidate them more."

But whatever, each to their own

[Captain Seafort]

Or intimidation really was one of the original designs goals (this is Palpatine we're talking about) - they set out to build the biggest conventional starship possible to make a statement of the Empire's might, and the advantages inherent in size were simply byproducts of that fundamental goal.

[Mikey]

I'd say that both design goals went hand in hand; remember, Palpy was many things, but entirely rational wasn't one of them.

In addition, practical design definitely was considered - Seafort has brought up many times the fact of the shape of the ISD's and SSD's being optimized to provide coverage, for example.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

True, if that were the reasoning behind it. However, there are more reasons than intimidation to build a big ship. Extra size means more surface area to mount weapons, greater mass to absorb the recoil of said weapons (allowing bigger ones to be mounted), and greater volume to put radiators, reactors, starfighters, and troops. Bigger is, quite simply, better in every way. The only advantage smaller ships offer is flexibility - an important consideration, certainly, but there are occassions when flexibility is secondary to individual utility.

Now this, absolutely. Bigger is better in many ways, to be sure, but then why say "they built it big to intimidate"?

I simply don't believe anybody ever built a real life battleship big for intimidation purposes. It's nonsense. The size of real life battleships was influenced by factors like how large it has to be to have the guns needed, which in turn was influenced by being able to outgun other people's battleships. Or by how much fuel and how big a set of engines it needed to have the speed and range you wanted, how much space you need for crew and provisions, all that kind of thing. But I'd bet my life savings that nobody built the Iowas because they thought making battleships bigger would make them more intimidating looking.

Palpatine would, though. It's the way of the Sith. Crush your enemies in every single way. The Exxie's not practical, but scares the shavit out of enemies of the Empire. So it's good and fulfills its design. Doesn't hurt that it's also pretty damned powerful. Nigh-invincible.

Just tell that to... Arvel Crynyd.

[Captain Seafort]

Just tell that to... Arvel Crynyd.

Crynyd would have been but a smear on the shields if Ackbar and Calrissian hadn't taken the fleet in close and concentrated fire on the Ex's shields and power generators. Even then, it was pure chance that his fighter got through the fire from the forward batteries and happened to hit the bridge - that was a one in a million fluke. That, or the will of the Force.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

Just tell that to... Arvel Crynyd.

Crynyd would have been but a smear on the shields if Ackbar and Calrissian hadn't taken the fleet in close and concentrated fire on the Ex's shields and power generators. Even then, it was pure chance that his fighter got through the fire from the forward batteries and happened to hit the bridge - that was a one in a million fluke. That, or the will of the Force.

Yeah, but who will history remember, the gunners or him ramming his A-wing into the bridge, screaming defiance as his fighter disintegrates around him?

Besieds, it was still damned cool and badass. The smallest fighter in the Rebel Fleet taking down the largest ship in the imperial fleet, indirectly sending it into the Death Star like a dagger.