If Star Trek were to introduce another massive Empire...

Crushproof · Post by **Crushproof** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:31 am

I'd like to see more development in existing Empires. THOLIANS!

Post by **Teaos** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:02 pm

I have always liked the Tholians. Cool species. Don't like the Gorn though.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:40 pm

I'd like to see both gorn and tholians in a more important role. Good concepts but they never developed them

DBS · Post by **DBS** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 6:48 am

Aquatics in space? I don't see why not given the proper evolution! Just because we did it one way doesn't mean everyone has to!

And filling in the vast improbability of an aquatic species getting into space and then amounting to something would make the story interesting in itself!

I could see it happening one of two ways: Either an aquatic species develops telepathy and fashions technology that way, eventually developing to the level of space travel, or a sentient race evolves BACK into the water after developing much of their technology.

I wouldn't put it past sentients in the Trek universe to be able to evolve like this. Someone created the whale probe!

I Am Spartacus · Post by **I Am Spartacus** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:06 am

Telepathy is without any basis in reality, and I hate its depiction in Star Trek. Could you explain exactly how any kind of telepathy could compensate for not being able to create fire? We're not talking about some trivial detail, we're talking about the fundamental basis behind all technological advance.

And there's no conceivable way that returning an entire society back to water would offer any evolutionary benefit, particularly after they've already developed a certain level of technology.

Species only develop some kind of technology when doing so offers an evolutionary benefit. Within an ocean, a species that survives does so without requiring fire. Look at dolphins: perfectly intelligent creatures, but without anything even remotely resembling technology, because they're evolutionarily hampered by features such as fins which are useless for creating technology. They've evolved to the point where they can survive and thrive in the world's oceans, so there's no need to move on land.

I'd like someone to offer me a way of becoming technologically advanced without fire, aside from the lame "oh you just need to think out side the box" shtick.

Monroe · Post by **Monroe** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:11 am

I thought the Xindi Aquatics stole their original technology from other species. Its obvious that they were tool users since they have hands so maybe Primates or Aborials helped jump start the Aquatic sciences to the point where they could take over.

I Am Spartacus · Post by **I Am Spartacus** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:46 am

Monroe wrote:I thought the Xindi Aquatics stole their original technology from other species. Its obvious that they were tool users since they have hands so maybe Primates or Aborials helped jump start the Aquatic sciences to the point where they could take over.

Hands are next to useless for swimming, so there's no way they would have been able to use sticks. And the problem of fire remains.

Post by **Teaos** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:05 pm

Fire was an important part of OUR advancement.

They could find a way to evolve and get technology in a completly different way than us.

Every species dosen't need to do it our way nor would they.

The fact that dolphins are in water has nothing to do with the fact they aren't highly evolved. It has to do with lack of apposable thumbs or the like.

Octapuss' would be the most likely aquatic life form on our planet to evolve into sentient life. They have been shown to be very intellegent and can use tools.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 5:52 pm

How would they create electricity?
And rocket engines would be a bit hard to use underwater.

The only compromise I see is that its an amphibious race. One that prefers to spend time underwater, but can come onto land.

I Am Spartacus · Post by **I Am Spartacus** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:26 pm

Teaos wrote:Fire was an important part of OUR advancement.

They could find a way to evolve and get technology in a completly different way than us.

Every species dosen't need to do it our way nor would they.

The fact that dolphins are in water has nothing to do with the fact they aren't highly evolved. It has to do with lack of apposable thumbs or the like.

Octapuss' would be the most likely aquatic life form on our planet to evolve into sentient life. They have been shown to be very intellegent and can use tools.

Err, Octupii are already sentient.

And I asked for a response other than "you just need to think outside the box." As Teoas said, electricity would be impossible to develop underwater.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:25 pm

Actually it was me who mentioned the electricity.

Post by **Teaos** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:27 am

Yeah well funny thing is I don't know off the top of my head how a civilisation could evolve under water. It is a rather complex thing I'm sure.

But the fact that we can't doesn't make it impossible. Apart from the fact we are sitting here proving it wrong who would of though a bunch of monkeys like us would make it to space?

The fact is they may not need electricity or fire or any of the things we used. They could use the milions of chemicals and compounds that are easy to get in the oceans for that. Evolution is a complex thing and I have no idea how it could happen but the fact you say it is impossible is rather nieve.

Bryan Moore · Post by **Bryan Moore** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:41 am

How about an empire of microscopic organisms that live within each living creature's cells, that seem to come together as if they were this large controlling force. I know, we'll call them midichlorions and we'll call this force "The Force!"

Oh wait, nevermind.

I Am Spartacus · Post by **I Am Spartacus** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:37 am

Teaos wrote:Yeah well funny thing is I don't know off the top of my head how a civilisation could evolve under water. It is a rather complex thing I'm sure.

But the fact that we can't doesn't make it impossible. Apart from the fact we are sitting here proving it wrong who would of though a bunch of monkeys like us would make it to space?

The fact is they may not need electricity or fire or any of the things we used. They could use the milions of chemicals and compounds that are easy to get in the oceans for that. Evolution is a complex thing and I have no idea how it could happen but the fact you say it is impossible is rather nieve.

Elements are the same on Earth as they are everywhere else. There is no scientific basis for anything you've said. You need fire, you need electricity. Biotech stuff is fun, but there's no basis in reality for a race of beings that use flesh for ships, vehicles, guns, etc. We've made it into space because there was an evolutionary benefit to creating fire and other technologies; if there hadn't been, we wouldn't.

And like I said, if the only thing you have to say is "well you just need to think outside the box," please stop.

Monroe · Post by **Monroe** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:20 am

Bryan Moore wrote:How about an empire of microscopic organisms that live within each living creature's cells, that seem to come together as if they were this large controlling force. I know, we'll call them midichlorions and we'll call this force "The Force!"

Oh wait, nevermind.

Actually I played this old game called Acendency once that had very imaginative and creative races and one of them were called the Mebes. They were massive (not microscopic) single cellular orgamsims that lived hundreds of years. Their special ability was their quick reproduction rate.

So.. maybe an Empire of macroscopic cells isn't that bad of an idea actually.