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am insanely furious with someone (who fate has ordained me to meet at 2) so transferred my rage onto the keyboard, hence the horrendous syntax there, whoops, will edit and make it easier on the eye!

I'm sorry but I just don't see the Negh'vars as being that important in the whole of the klingon fleet. Sure they are great ships with a lot of fire power but they are still only ships of terror. They were built to show off gawron's power not really be a mass produced warship. Though if they were mass produced then the klingons would have a great new way of breaking apart enemies.

They're by far the largest ships the Klingons have - three times the mass of a Vor'cha, give or take. They've also got those monster heavy guns underneath, which are the biggest we've seen on any ship (including the AGT E-D). To lose such a ship would be a serious blow to the firepower of the Klingon fleet. Sure, they're not mass-produced, but that makes them more important individually, not less.

Those massive guns you speak of are the Mark 18's and comparing them to the Lancer of the AGT E-D is a poor thought. The Lancer made short work of a Negh'var yet the Negh'vars Mark 18's couldn't take out DS9's shields, only drain them for a short period. The Negh'vars are good ships only in numbers with escorts around them to cover. They make great siege ships as well but as to the main fleet you could build 3 Vorchas for the cost of 1 Negh'var and the 3 Vorchas over all have more fire power.

So you're saying the Negh'vars' big guns are poor because they can only temporarily knock out the shields of a station that can hold off entire fleets. Don't you see a slight problem with that statement?

POOR?
No no no, bad seafort, bad!

Just a poor comparison to the AGT E-D.

The mark 18's are the biggest ship mounted weapons current and the most powerful. I just thought that your AGT remark was (very very very!) just a little bit off.

The point still stands - the AGT E-D was able to cripple a starship about its size with a few shots. The Negh'var was able to knock out a kilometre-wide space station capable of holding off dozens of ships (at least) with a few shots. I'd say it's a good comparison, if anything it's underestimating the Negh'var.

Two shots killed KILLED the negh'ver were as anywhere between a half and full dozen shots, DRAINED ds9's shields enough for troops to beam aboard for about a minute. I'm sorry but the AGT just takes the cake. I still love the negh'var and would be very happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy to see the Klingon Empire use them to replace the Vorchas but in the end no matter how good they look they still can't match the Lance.

It took more like eight shots to destroy that Negh'var. The WotW attack disabled DS9's shields until repairs could be made. Since the Klingons wanted to capture the Detapa Council, it made no sense to destroy the station rather than board it - which if they'd continued firing rather than beaming over troops they would have.

Yeah, I think that's not a great example if you are trying to downplay the abilities of the Negh'Var. However, I do agree that due to its apparent purpose as a siege instrument and symbol of terror - along with individual Klingon commaders' ability to conduct warfare on their own - that the loss of a Negh'Var would not be as problematical to the Klingons as the loss of a Sov or other "flagship," for example, would be to Starfleet.

I counted five hits myself, 1 of which hit when the ship was going up already. But in the end, the lance passed right throught the neghvars shields without trouble yet the Mark 18s had to fire heavily into ds9's shields. To logic that still leaves the Lance well over the 18's.

Actually, I think the loss of a Sov would be a lot less important than the loss of a Negh'var. Yes, it's powerful, but so's a Negh'var. The difference is that Negh'vars have been used as flagships, and as part of major invasions. The only Sov we've seen has been used by Starfleet solely as a diplomatic ship - even when the Borg were attacking, it was sent away from the battle, rather than simply off-loading Picard for the duration of the emergency.

Well, perhaps the Sovereign-class itself was a bad example, although I attribute that particular use of the E-E as just poor decision-making by the admiralty. In the event of the loss of a fleet or squadron commander, the Klingons seem to be better able to operate independently and recover from the loss faster. I also believe that the loss of a Negh'Var counts for less in ship-to-ship warfare than its total power implies.

Agreed, the Neghvar does show its worth far better then the Sov.

Mikey also makes a good point. The sov is better at Ship to Ship but I think that the Negh'vars would be great at hitting starbases and planets that have heavy sheilding.